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Alternate Flight Plan in the IFD FMS

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DavidBunin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 9:42am
I know there has been some discussion or feature requests for a way to “what if” the active flight plan without really executing the alternate scenarios.  I thought of a possible way to embody this request within the existing architecture of the unit.  First, here is an image of the current flight plan screen:


I propose that adjacent to the MAP tab, there could be an ALT tab to access an alternate flight plan, as shown here:


Initially, the first time in a flight that alternate mode is accessed, the alternate plan would simply be a copy of the active flight plan.  Pressing the ALT tab would take you into the alternate plan where changes can be made with no effect of the active flight plan (and no effect on the autopilot, if engaged).  The ATL tab changes to a NORM tab when you are in alternate mode.  See the alternate mode shown here:


There are two ways to leave the alternate mode.  Pressing the NORM tab takes you back to the normal (active) flight plan without incorporating the changes made in alternate mode.  The other way out of alternate mode is to Line Select “Apply Changes” which incorporates the alternate changes into the active flight plan and takes you back to normal mode.

Now, there are a few problems.  What happens to the current navigation and autopilot modes if the user makes a change to the active leg while in alternate mode?  I thought about this for a while, and the best solution I could come up with is that alternate mode cannot change the active leg (similar to the rubber band limitation that existed in early software versions of the IFD).  The next problem is where does the cursor go if the user flips back to NORM mode while the cursor was on an alternate waypoint that is not present in the active flight plan?  I can think of two reasonable solutions for this: one is to jump the cursor to the current active waypoint in the normal flight plan, the other is to move the cursor to the nearest adjacent waypoint in the normal flight plan to wherever it was in the alternate flight plan.  Between these two, I think the “move to current active waypoint” is more predictable and therefore makes more sense.

David Bunin
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AviJake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 2:08pm
Interesting idea.
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
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DavidBunin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 4:43pm
Thanks!  I'm glad you think so.

I had the moment of inspiration just before I went to sleep a few nights ago, and the idea bit me so hard that I stayed up very late making the screen images and composing my thoughts.

I was afraid the concept might not hold up to the light of day once I posted it.

David

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 6:02pm
I would have the TAB actually indicate which mode you are in, so the reverse of what is depicted above. Tabs are not normally action buttons, but rather labels.

Perhaps an action button on the LSK on the left to do the switching.

Alternately, REMOVE the MAP tab label, label it instead NORM, and have the second tab below, labelled ALT or PROP (proposed). Now you switch between NORM & ALT/PROP by selecting the respective tab.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 26 Aug 2016 at 6:03pm
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brou0040 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 12:26am
Although I like the idea, please don't add more tabs.  Even the MAP tab itself always seems to be in the way of a procedure label.  When you have an airway, approach, etc, the MAP tab obscures the labels.  Adding more tabs will make that handy feature disappear.  I actually suggested removing the tabs quite some time ago (see here) and provided from/to pictures.  Hopefully, a smart way to implement this feature without a new vertical tab will come up.

It looks like the issues that I was discussing in the post I linked to are still present - hopefully they are addresses in 10.2...  Over a year and the MAP hold is still at an IAP of an approach to a different airport - at the wrong altitude.  I just don't see how this is correct!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:26am
Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

please don't add more tabs.  Even the MAP tab itself always seems to be in the way of a procedure label.  When you have an airway, approach, etc, the MAP tab obscures the labels.


If you select the FPL-MAP mode, then the MAP (and thus the ALT) tabs flip around, and you can see the airway/procedure brackets again in the flight plan, unencumbered.

If you're playing what-if with the flight plan, then I think you will probably be using the FPL-MAP mode to preview what you're doing.

David Bunin

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Bob H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 10:39am
I do not want this capability added to the IFDs, and feel strongly that it would actually be detrimental and possibly a safety of flight issue.  The elegance of the IFDs are their simple architecture and user interface.  Most inflight menu options are accessible by no more than two button pushes.  You are suggesting a third menu layer.  The current FPL tab has only the current flight plan being flown.  There is always certainty about what you are looking at and what you are modifying.  Adding another side tab with ALT, changes that completely.  Keep in mind a situation in heavy weather, single pilot, and busy airspace.  Having a second ALT tab now creates ambiguity.  You go to the FPL tab and need to make sure you are in the right FPL sub-tab.  Both tabs come out at the same time and it is only by looking at and reading the small tab do you know what mode you are in.  How many of you read the side tabs now?  You don’t need to because there is only one choice.  That is the beauty of Avidyne’s simplicity.  Also consider the difficulty of pressing the right tab while in turbulence.  Initially both tabs contain identical information.  I can easily see situations where you think you are modifying the active flight plan but are actually modifying the ALT or vice versa.  In my opinion this is a safety of flight issue.  It increases workload and unnecessarily creates ambiguity. 

I note that the example does not show the preview map.  I assume that the only reason to do alternate scenarios in the FPL tab is to make use of the preview map.  Otherwise, this could all be done in the ROUTE tab without any possible impact on the active FPL and without any changes to the current software.  I also don’t feel that this feature would be used very much since most alternative planning is done during the preflight.  However, if necessary, inflight preview map alternative planning is available right now on the IFD100 and can be sent over to the IFD Panel mount as may be necessary. 

Also consider software bloat, processor speed, bugs, reliability, etc. 

I believe in the KISS principle here.  If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Bob
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Catani View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 12:29am
I second Bob's objections to this proposal, for all the reasons he mentions.  

And BTW, welcome to the forum, Bob!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 4:08pm
I'm not sure why only one image appears in the original post above.  There were three images when I started the conversation back in 2016.

Okay, never mind.  A screen refresh and they all show up now.


Edited by DavidBunin - 13 Feb 2018 at 4:09pm
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Bob H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

I second Bob's objections to this proposal, for all the reasons he mentions.  

And BTW, welcome to the forum, Bob!

Thank you!  Great resources here!  I'm glad to be in such esteemed company!
Bob
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