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Connecting with an NGT 9000 |
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frank27 
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 Topic: Connecting with an NGT 9000Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 11:32am |
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Can the IFD 440/540 accept (and display) ADS-B traffic and weather data from the L-3 Lynx NGT-9000? If not currently, are there plans to add that functionality in the future (which can be discussed here)? |
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AviSimpson
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Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 4:01pm |
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Currently, the IFD's do not communicate with the Lynx system. It could be something that we add in the future but it hasn't been discussed on the road map as of late. I will add it to the feature request list if it hasn't been done so.
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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frank27
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Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 4:23pm |
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Thank you for responding. I was curious because there is a progression that would appear to make the answer, "yes": - The NavWorx ADS600-B web site speaks of an Arinc 429 option to allow ADS-B data to be viewed on the Garmin 400/500 series and Avidyne EX500 boxes. That implies that the Garmin boxes understand Arinc 429 messages which are carrying ADS-B data. I don't know enough about Arinc 429 label compatibility, but in a round-about way I thought it would just work magically, out of the box. Back to reality. :( |
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pilotgeek
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Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 7:47pm |
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I seem to recall that the IFDs are not yet actually doing ADSB traffic. Rather they receive ARINC 735 traffic via ARINC 429. As it happens, that is what the NGT series outputs as well (because that is the [legacy] ARINC standard for traffic). You would need to check the NGTs STC to see if it is a legal connection though. Note that all of the neato ADS-B traffic features will probably be missing on any 735 box, as the required symbology falls short of what can be done with ADS-B (vector, speed, etc). Regards, Neal |
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Bad1996
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Posted: 02 Nov 2015 at 10:19pm |
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Please do. I'm ready to do the Lynx box but I also want it to display (correctly) on my 540. One reason I went 540 is because it was supposed to talk to everyone else's boxes.......or will in the future. My avionics guy said it would now but I was wondering if it would be just the limited data like the post above talks about. Thanks |
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AviJake
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Posted: 03 Nov 2015 at 10:02am |
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We are engaged with L3 on the topic. There are a number of issues still to work through so it's not clear when and if we'll have this all worked out.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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clydeps
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Posted: 08 Nov 2015 at 4:36pm |
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I have an NGT9000+ installed with dual GNS430Ws and EX5000C MFD. I get traffic on all of these from the NGT just as I did from the Skywatch installed previously. ADS-B targets are displayed (if in range) but without the additional data i.e. callsign, track and groundspeed, that is shown on the NGT.
I see no reason why the IFDs won't work the same as the 430s in this respect. The NGT just looks like Skywatch, which is supported. The NGT already sends the additional ADS-B data in ARINC 735B DTIF packets, so hopefully at some point Avidyne will implement that. In the meantime it's perfectly usable.
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Bad1996
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Posted: 10 Nov 2015 at 12:17am |
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L3 says it will work too but won't display the latest/best ADSB symbology (currently) I have a pic of it displaying on a G box and both have the altitude related to your aircraft but the G is not showing direction of the traffic, 9000 box is showing direction. When I say direction, I'm speaking of the 9000 having the arrow symbol compared to the little square on the G.
Edited by Bad1996 - 10 Nov 2015 at 12:19am |
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Bad1996
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Posted: 25 Dec 2015 at 11:07pm |
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How's the communication with L3 ? Getting a jump on this before the 530 folks do would be a plus ! My 9000 is at the avionics shop, waiting on me now.
Edited by Bad1996 - 25 Dec 2015 at 11:08pm |
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AviJake
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Posted: 26 Dec 2015 at 10:03am |
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Working on it but moving at about the pace of frozen pond water. Don't know how it will turn out at this point.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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skitheo
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Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 7:47pm |
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Add my voice to the cacophony clamoring for IFD/NGT9000 integration. I have both of them going in to my plane very soon, and would like to see weather and traffic simultaneously.
While we're at it: - Android EFB integration for flight planning exchange, GPS data, etc. - JPI EDM 830 / 900 GPS data to, fuel data from (I believe this is already implemented)
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 8:00pm |
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Yes, that is fully implemented. Although I can't know first hand, every indication is that good EFB app support is imminent. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 03 Jan 2016 at 12:38am |
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gsengle
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Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 8:23pm |
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I would think the people who are installing the L3 Lynx are exactly your customer! (I have one, and a 530) in my '96 Ovation. I would put in the 540 now if the integration were good. By all accounts the Lynx unit is very successful, and you'd want to piggy-back on that market - people who are willing to consider solutions other than Garmin. So, please please please, make this integration good, and I'll buy a 540 tomorrow :)
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Apiaguy
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Posted: 05 Jan 2016 at 8:11pm |
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I have the Lynx... I have an EX600 and soon to have the IFD540... the 600 displays the traffic from the lynx and I assume will display it on the 540 as the 530 does.
+1 me for more communication between the devices.
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Bad1996
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Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 1:09am |
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It will display it like the 530, that is the problem. If everyone had thier $hit in one sack so to speak, the 540 would correctly display targets. Right now you get no direction on the target and I think it is also lacking some more info. I know it takes time but potential customers like Gsengle are there for the taking. It would benefit Avidyne to move quickly on this. L3 has told me they are ready and willing, if they are the problem please let me (and others) know so we can light a fire. My shop just installed a Lynx in a (I think) Bonanza with twin 540's, mine goes in this week for annual and the Lynx. Next week my buddies 182 with a 540 goes in for a Lynx. |
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Apiaguy
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Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 12:16pm |
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Yes, I realize they don't communicate very well yet. Hopefully they will also be able to integrate the adsb weather somehow.
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glassanza
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Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 12:52pm |
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I
have two 540’s in my Bonanza and was in the process of installing a 340 +
MLB100 during a recent engine overhaul when my shop made me a deal on the Lynx
I just could not pass up. Although on paper it is not the best long term choice
it was a great short term choice for the money. I really wanted traffic and as
an early 540 pre-buy guy didn’t want to wait indefinitely for traffic on my 540
since I was giving up TIS traffic that I was getting on my G600 from my G330
(not perfect but better than nothing). The 340 would have put traffic on my IPad
(with Stratus) but I really didn’t what to have to drag it out every flight. The
Lynx gives me TAS traffic on my G600 PDF and ADS-B traffic and weather on the transponder
itself. In my set up the 540 does not talk to the Lynx but I know that going in.
Back to the point of the post, if Avidyne and L-3 would work together I believe
both would benefit from pairing up the IFD (which I love) with the Lynx (which
I also love). I believe L-3 is going to sell a lot of transponders based on reviews
and my personal experience…
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GDC25
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Joe Jet
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Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 9:25pm |
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As I've said elsewhere, Avidyne should just make a competitor to the Lynxx 9000, but with a larger display and no GPS.
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A36 w/IFD 540, PA60 w/IFD 540
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skitheo
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Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 9:53pm |
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Any movement on the integration front?
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AviSimpson
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Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 10:55am |
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No. Discussions between the companies are ongoing.
Edited by AviSimpson - 25 Jan 2016 at 10:58am |
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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Bad1996
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 1:07am |
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Who would "the" L3 guy talk with at Avidyne to get this ball rolling ? Both sides have said "hey, we're ready" I don't know which company would be the hold up but, but, but........ Avidyne sells transponders too and L3 doesn't sell (comparable) GPS boxes. So, you can guess which way I am leaning...if not true, prove me wrong. Avidyne always said, we will work with anyone and everybody. That's one of the reasons I replaced my G with a 540. So I do, expect Avidyne to play nice. Two answers above. 1. Working on it but slow. 2. No discussions. I'm no rocket scientist but we have two different answers. Neither suits a lot of us. If the issue is with L3 just let me know, there are a bunch of folks ready to light a fire. Thanks Edited by Bad1996 - 31 Jan 2016 at 1:21am |
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Bad1996
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 1:24am |
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And this is why it would benefit Avidyne ^^^^^^^^ |
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AviJake
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:31am |
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The two Presidents are talking. That's as good as you're going to get.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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skitheo
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 1:08pm |
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My I further emphasize Bad1996 and Gsengle's point: A major selling point of the Avidyne system is that it's an alternative to Garmin offers open architecture. Money, mouth and all that.
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glassanza
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:34pm |
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"Two Presidents walk into a bar" nothing get done... I'm watching way too much Fox News!
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GDC25
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AviJake
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:37pm |
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And apparently you are bugging the phone lines between us and L3......
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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glassanza
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:49pm |
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I agree with Bad1996, if it's on L3 Let us know, we will blow up their phones until we get some action. Luckily we don't have to do that with Avidyne and this forum is very very appreciated.
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GDC25
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AviJake
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Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:53pm |
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Let's let it play out.
In the meantime, we do NOT make any claims to having a functional integration between the IFDs and the L3 units.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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glassanza
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Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 3:18pm |
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Roger. Standing down on the speed dial button...
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GDC25
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Bad1996
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Posted: 02 Feb 2016 at 11:54am |
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Thanks Steve. Need any help on the L3 side please let us know. Will try not to bother you too often :-)
High hopes though !
Edited by Bad1996 - 02 Feb 2016 at 11:55am |
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Catani
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Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 4:28pm |
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After setting the Main ARINC 429 Config "In 2" to "High' speed and "Traffic Advisory" data, I found my IFD440 displays traffic provided by my L3 Lynx 9000+. Since the 9000+ includes Skywatch functionality, perhaps this is not surprising. The IFD440 does not display the 9000+ ADS-B weather, however.
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Bad1996
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Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:05pm |
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I'm not sure what you mean by "in 2" but that might be obvious when I look. My 540 is set to High on the traffic. I also changed a setting in the Lynx (recommended by L3) and it made mine give the traffic sensor error all the time. I changed that back and it is back to an intermittent error. I assume you aren't seeing any error messages ? It's aggrivating that folks with 530's are seeing the traffic with no issues. |
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Gring
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Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:51pm |
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There are two ARINC IN ports, so I think he is saying his second port is connected to the Lynx and therefore where he is changing the settings.
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Bad1996
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Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 12:22am |
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Is there a "traffic advisory" in each of the two ARINC IN ports ? L3 had also told me to check for "high" at the traffic advisory but I didn't look farther than the first one I saw. He figured though, that since I was seeing traffic part time that the 540 was set correctly. Unfortunately the change he wanted done to the NGT9000 just made it worse.
It's such a great opportunity for Avidyne to leap frog Garmin once again if they would talk 100%. I know folks just waiting for these two boxes to talk and they would dump the G in a heartbeat. Edited by Bad1996 - 07 Feb 2016 at 12:24am |
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 4:04pm |
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The IFD-540 has two ARINC 429 input ports. Each port has two settings.
One setting is the data speed (Hi/Lo). One setting is the data type. Many possible selections. "Traffic Advisory" is one of them See section 7.5.2 of the installation manual. It doesn't help to configure Port #1 correctly if your unit is wired into port #2. David Bunin |
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Catani
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Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 5:36pm |
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Exactly. The IFD440, being a plug-in replacement, has traffic set to the #2 ARINC port because that's how the 430 it replaced was wired. However, I have found that traffic from the 9000+ is intermittent. It works on some flights, and on others it doesn't, giving "Traffic Sensor Failure" alerts that cannot be permanently cancelled. You either press CLR two or three times per minute, or just ignore it. I've decided to disable the traffic function until Avidyne and L3 work out the issues.
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Bad1996
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Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 12:52am |
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So your 9000+ is acting the same way. I have been talking with L3 and today we tried the new software (approved two weeks ago by faa) and it did not help. It did solve a problem with another box so we had high hopes. Also tried another config change: TIF on the CDTI output instead of both, that seemed to be worse. Tried that on the old and new software.
Mine always starts out good but gets worse as time goes by. Due to seeing more traffic after 10-15 minutes or ?? I don't know. I see what you are talking about regarding the In1 and In2, I have not tried traffic advisory on the In2 assuming that is a selection. Mine is currently set to low/off. One case that the G 530 works and my 540 won't, Bummer. |
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 10:56am |
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Recently, a forum participant had an intermittent data issue on his IFD540 that turned out to be an IFD that didn't seat fully in the rack. That is not the sort of thing that I would think to troubleshoot online here, but maybe a real-world look would detect the issue.
David Bunin |
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Bad1996
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Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 9:52pm |
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That theory is not a bad one and I'll tell you why. My 540 has twice had com issues. On the first install and then recently when it was out for the Lynx install. Both times a simple pull out and reinstall solved the problem. That doesn't sound bad but it has only been out twice.
Why ? The only thing I can figure is that the 530 rack isn't quite perfect for the 540 (I would hope a true 540 rack would not need to be reseated everytime. There seems to be a lot, or maybe even all Lynx/Avidyne airplanes with this issue so a seat problem doesn't sound right. Could it be a rack issue, 530 rack vs 540 ? I would like to know if ANY Avidyne/Lynx Combo actually work. L3 says that the 9000+ seems to work correctly and now we hear from Catani his isn't working either. |
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Apiaguy
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Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 10:23pm |
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I have the 9000 and an avidyne ex600... The 600 has no trouble with the traffic from the 9000. Funny thing is we couldnt get my 530 to display the traffic... 540 is going in as we speak...will see what it produces
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Catani
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Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 3:06am |
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My Avidyne EX5000C MFD also has no problem reliably displaying the traffic from the 9000+.
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 12:03pm |
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Some of it depends on the other equipment and how well the racks are spaced at installation. For example, my IFD fits tight against the transponder below it, but has good clearance with the radio above. For whatever reason, it is easier to install the IFD first and the transponder second. Much harder to install the IFD if the transponder is already fully racked. I have the real Avidyne 540 rack. I never had a GNS unit installed. There is plenty of room where the transponder could have been a fraction of an inch lower, but I used some clean existing holes rather than elongate them in the rails. David Bunin |
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Catani
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Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 2:12pm |
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Steve -- Your new IFD 10.2.0.0 software release notice states in the first paragraph "Added support for multiple options on the IFD series to include: ... i. Capstone compliant ADS-B receivers." According to an L3 technical support rep I spoke with today, the L3 Lynx NGT 9000 is "capstone compliant." Your release notice suggests that the IFD boxes can now display ADS-B traffic from the (supposedly) capstone-compliant NGT 9000. Does that mean the discussions between L3 and Avidyne were successful in resolving the reasons the IFD boxes could not display ADS-B traffic and weather coming from an NGT 9000? If the discussions did not resolve anything, would you nevertheless expect the 10.2.0.0 software changes would allow the IFD's to display ADS-B traffic and weather data from the NGT 9000 anyway?
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AviJake
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Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 9:19pm |
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No, the discussions were not successful. We continue to find out that there is no such thing as a single "Capstone compliant standard". Every single vendor and device is different. At this point, we can make no claims of supporting the L3 Lynx. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't - we don't know.
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Steve Jacobson
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glassanza
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Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 7:34pm |
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I love my 540 that replaced a 530, no comparison with regard to capability and ease of use. At the time of my install the NGT 9000 appeared to have an advantage over the Avidyne products available and I chose to go down that path and have no regrets. I have had traffic and weather from the NGT 9000 for over a year problem free, I am confident I have been flying safer and smarter since the install. At the time of my install the Avidyne ADS-B products were not working well and from postings here still seam to have issues. If I have to install another Avidyne product down the road to take advantage software upgrades to the 540 I will likely get my checkbook out again, however, as a long time member here I would suggest limiting the marketing bait so your customers can make better decisions with regard to manufacturer compatibility (or lack of).
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GDC25
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ddgates
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Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 8:14pm |
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Jake:
Remember some time back you said y'all would try displaying the MLB products on the Aspen MFD? Did that happen? David
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David Gates
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 5:05pm |
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No it didn't for 10.2 for scope control reasons. If I recall too, the Aspen datalink box only has one 232 port and therefore can't display on multiple devices at same time.
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Steve Jacobson
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ddgates
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 6:29pm |
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Thanks Jake.
Not sure why that would be, i.e. if Aspen purports to display its own ADS-B TIS and FIS, aside from software incompatibility, why couldn't the MLB be the source just the same? Not that I understand any of this stuff; I learned to program in FORTRAN, and used punch cards.
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David Gates
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AviJake
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 6:34pm |
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Oh I misinterpreted your question. I thought you were asking if we could display the Aspen datalink on our boxes.
But what I think you asked is if Aspen would display MLB100 (now called SkyTrax 100) output on their displays. If that was the question then my answer is "beats me". I haven't explicitly spoken with Aspen about their plans for quite some time. We certainly have no problem with that and happy to share whatever data they need or want. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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ddgates
Senior Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 8:03pm |
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From Charles Reiche, who I know from the Beechtalk:
Quote: As of now, The MLB is not fully compatible with the Aspen systems. I believe that the box is built by NavWorx and they claim the ability to send 429 traffic only out of the ADS 600 box http://www.navworx.com/PDFs/Evolution-EFD-block.pdf This has not been tested by our engineers and not certified as an approved interface. You should verify with Avidyne if their box sends out the standard type of ARINC traffic format that our display takes (the same as their TAS traffic systems). So for now it appears that you could at least send traffic, but again, not tested on our end. Adding software capabilities and features (ADS-B Weather) from other manufactures receivers is in large part market driven and controlled by the availability of our software engineers to work with theirs to develop an interface. We are all here at Sun N Fun and will walk over to talk to Avidyne’s people tomorrow morning and see if we can find any more info on the possibilities of displaying their products on our display. Best Regards,
Charlie Reiche Field Service Enginee So there you have it, and you are both in Lakeland. David |
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David Gates
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frank27 wrote: