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Stiletto1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 10:43pm
As I contemplate my 310C panel upgrade, I wonder how much I need worry about having backup capabilities these days.

In the center stack I currently have a KLN90B and KX165 w/GS interfaced with a KCS 55 slaved compass and HSI, a 2nd KX155 w/GS with second OBS, and a KMA 20 audio panel. 

The stack height is limited to barely eight inches due to control column interference, so the transponder is in the lower panel just in front of the pilots right knee, and below that a KR87 ADF (yes, it still works if you can find something to tune it to). 

So, the only way my plane gets dual navigators is if I use something the size of two IFD 440's.

Another option is to keep a NAV/COM and install a single 550 or 540 in the top slot.  With an ADSB transponder that also has built in WAAS and BT, I would have a back up map with charts and could always shoot an old school approach should the GPS navigator go dark, but I think it is probably more likely the 2nd NAV/COM goes dark - The KX165 is 'on the bench' now.

Then there is the option of a remote transponder with the 550 package deal that is currently running, or potentially both a remote audio panel and transponder as well to save space if I went with the other brand, but that feels too much like putting all my eggs in one basket.

Probably replace the HSI/AI with the G5's, or something like them, and pull the vacuum system while I'm at it.

So how do you guys feel about having back up's these days?  Are the latest navigators proving bullet proof?  Do you feel comfortable with a remote transponder being dependent on the navigator?

For perspective, I fly about 150 hours of cross country per year. 


Decisions decisions...







Edited by Stiletto1 - 22 Aug 2017 at 10:46pm
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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Nothing is bulletproof, but modern panel mounts are pretty close.

I think that giving up the screen space of a 540, for a couple of 440s isn't worth it. If you have the room and budget for a 540/440 pair, go for it.

I have a PSE 450a, IFD540, SL-30 and stec55x in my pilots stack. The transponder is remoted, the axp322. A bit of cross-dependency, but reasonable to me, and a transponder you access only once, or maybe twice a flight.

* Orest

Edited by oskrypuch - 22 Aug 2017 at 10:59pm
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Plus even if the IFD540 was to go dark the remote transponder still is squawking the last code it had.
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Originally posted by LANCE LANCE wrote:

Plus even if the IFD540 was to go dark the remote transponder still is squawking the last code it had.

If using a SkyTrax 100 for ADSB-in and the controlling navigator went dark you would lose your ADSB and position connection to an IPad, correct?

I'm thinking a standalone transponder with its' own WAAS and BT connection to an IPad offers a back up mapping/navigation application in this scenario.

Anybody know if the GTX-345R remote transponder w/WAAS plays well with the IFD and will continue a BT connection to an IPad if the IFD went dark?  I know the panel mount 345 w/WAAS would work in this way.
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Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Nothing is bulletproof, but modern panel mounts are pretty close.

I think that giving up the screen space of a 540, for a couple of 440s isn't worth it. If you have the room and budget for a 540/440 pair, go for it.

I have a PSE 450a, IFD540, SL-30 and stec55x in my pilots stack. The transponder is remoted, the axp322. A bit of cross-dependency, but reasonable to me, and a transponder you access only once, or maybe twice a flight.

* Orest

If I use a 540 there would be no room for a second 440.  With a single 540 I could only fit an audio panel and a second NAV/COM in the center stack - which is the way I'm probably going to go.  Transponder would have to be remote or stuck in the lower panel where the old one is now - which is an awkward position even though it is used infrequently. 

If there is remote audio panel option that works with the IFD, that I'm not aware of, then I would go with a 540/440 combo and eliminate the back up NAV/COM.  I think only the competitions GTN750 offers a remote audio panel option but the 750 is so much taller than a 540 I would still only have room for a 2nd NAV/COM.

 

 


Edited by Stiletto1 - 23 Aug 2017 at 6:16am
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Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

Originally posted by LANCE LANCE wrote:

Plus even if the IFD540 was to go dark the remote transponder still is squawking the last code it had.

If using a SkyTrax 100 for ADSB-in and the controlling navigator went dark you would lose your ADSB and position connection to an IPad, correct?

Correct-- the SkyTrax feeds ADS-B In to the IFD, which then broadcasts it over WiFi. Note that, as of today, Foreflight can't read the ADS-B data stream from the IFDs. Some other apps can. If you really want an on-demand ADS-B In backup, you could either build/buy a Stratux or pick up a used Stratus 1 for about 0.2 AMU and be all set, with no panel changes required.
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Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

With a single 540 I could only fit an audio panel and a second NAV/COM in the center stack - which is the way I'm probably going to go.


That is essentially what I did.  I have the IFD-540 as my only "official" (IFR legal) GPS.  My backup (#2 GPS) is the 696 on the yoke, but yours could be an iPad or something.  If I lose the main unit, that is technically an emergency so anything is a good/valid/legal alternative, and I like the total redundancy/separation of a portable device in a backup role.

Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

  Transponder would have to be remote or stuck in the lower panel where the old one is now - which is an awkward position


Or it could be both.  Plenty of modern panel-mounted digital transponders have the ability to be controlled "remotely" with serial data.  I don't know if the AXP340 is one of them, but I suspect it is.  If so, you could put it in that awkward panel position, and then just control it from the IFD most of the time.  Then you still have the transponder itself as an input option if the IFD chunks.

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Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:


Or it could be both.  Plenty of modern panel-mounted digital transponders have the ability to be controlled "remotely" with serial data.  I don't know if the AXP340 is one of them, but I suspect it is.  If so, you could put it in that awkward panel position, and then just control it from the IFD most of the time.  Then you still have the transponder itself as an input option if the IFD chunks.

David

Morning David,

My correspondence with an Avidyne sales rep suggest the IFD does not have the ability to remotely control any of the panel mount transponder options, or any competitors remote options for that matter - which is disappointing.  

As I indicated above, Using the IFD as the only on board WAAS position source results in a point of failure that takes out not only primary navigator functions, but also the transponder, ADSB in data, and the WIFI/BT link to a portable device.  It also looks as though a dual IFD 440 arrangement would not provide the level of redundancy you might expect, do to interface conflicts.  The current Avidyne transponder offerings do not include internal WAAS or BT options. 

Since I have limited panel space and will likely use a single GPS navigator, I am intending to use a transponder with an internal WAAS, separate antennae, and its' own BT connection to an IPad as a backup nav.  I think I understand that such an arrangement may also be configured to use the primary navigator as a position source for the transponder should its' internal WAAS go TU.

In consideration of the above, the Lynx 9000 is not a contender because I cannot locate it in the center stack where its' screen would be of value - and locating it in the lower panel would make code entry awkward since it lacks buttons.  It looks as though the GTX 345 is the only currently available product that offers this level of redundancy and accessibility, and that will also fit within the physical constraints of my panel. 

I guess I should note that a GTN750 along with their remote audio interface and GTX-345R with internal WAAS also fits and gets me to this level of redundancy (audio defaults to Com 2, GTX keeps squawking nd BT'ng, etc.), but, if I can make it all work, I'd really rather have an IFD.  Other recent new product offerings and software updates coming from G are making this a very difficult decision.    

I read somewhere within this forum that 2017 was going to be Avidyne's year for ADSB offerings.  Perhaps another ADSB transponder option will reveal itself soon. I intend to begin the upgrade in October/November but might wait a bit if another option was "coming soon".  

 


Edited by Stiletto1 - 26 Aug 2017 at 9:44am
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Maybe it's not in the cards, but either dual/triple Aspen or G500 provide a lot of display. This negates most of the need for the larger display of the 540, to my thinking at least.
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Originally posted by bobcain bobcain wrote:

Maybe it's not in the cards, but either dual/triple Aspen or G500 provide a lot of display. This negates most of the need for the larger display of the 540, to my thinking at least.

Well, That would certainly add an order of magnitude more expense for sure!  The G5 AI/HSI route or similar is closer to being within my financial pain threshold.

I do go back and forth on the value of going big versus a 440 or some such when you factor in that a yoke mounted IPad mini offers plenty of screen real estate.  

Currently looks like I'm going to spend at least half again as much as I have in the plane itself, not including installation cost, but she's basically restored with rebuilt gear, new interior, and engines under 400 SMOH.  I don't plan to trade her off for the rest of my flying days so I figure I'll bring her into the 21st century as far as practical (whatever that means) to meet my needs/desires.
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