User Waypoint as Origin |
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AviSteve
Admin Group Joined: 12 Feb 2018 Location: Melbourne, FL Status: Offline Points: 2244 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 8:42am |
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Having the ability to use a user waypoint as the Origin comes up pretty often and I'm fascinated by the desire to have this ability. The only real thing that an origin does is to provide a means to enter a departure. You can also enter a runway, but that's really only meaningful to select the runway transition for a departure. Given that a user waypoint won't have any defined departures, that feature of an origin would be inapplicable. So, if you were to insert the user waypoint as a "Waypoint" into the flight plan, it would have the same effect. I will concede that activating that flight plan would activate the leg to the user waypoint instead of the second leg in the flight plan. But the solution there is to just activate the next leg. So I'm genuinely curious. Why is there such a desire to have this feature? Is it purely because of the extra step of having to activate the second leg or is there more to it?
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Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering |
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afassas
Groupie Joined: 21 Jun 2017 Location: KRGA Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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Yes Steve, it is that extra step of having to "remember" or "know" to look at the IFD flight plan and notice that the departure origin is not the proper "color" and that the next waypoint is not the first desired waypoint. As an IFD-540 user, who took delivery in March of 2018, that also uses Foreflight, I was very excited to have two-way flightplan transfer available between the IFD-540 and Foreflight. I was so looking forward to being able to accomplish all of my flight planning on Foreflight and then push that flightplan to an IFD-540 "route". I did not "know" that the version of Foreflight, at the time, was not coding its flight plan (route) information properly for the IFD-540, so that my departure point was an "Origin" airport, as would happen if the route were added directly on the IFD-540. The confusion that reigned in my cockpit upon departure, with having this Foreflight "bug" was disconcerting. Upon noticing the incorrect waypoint, in flight, I quickly would select the proper next waypoint from my FMS page, FPL tab, and then press the DIRECT button and Enter. I know that this was user error, for not checking the FMS/navigator for being setup properly. Again, I was NEW to the IFD-540 and its buttonology, and didn't even realize that I could have, on those flights, selected the next waypoint, then the "Activate Leg" LSK. Well, after learning of the Foreflight flight plan push deficiency (via a telephone call to Avidyne Support), at the time, I made it a part of my procedure flow to always check the IFD-540 to see what the "magenta"/ to waypoint is and adjust/select as necessary. With a recent Foreflight version update, their flight plans now push to the IFD-540 with my departure airport shown as an "Origin" and the need to "activate leg" for the next waypoint has gone away. So what does my experience have to do with "User Waypoints" as an "Origin"? Only that there is a not unreasonable assumption by the aircraft pilot, that the flight plan (route) entered on a navigator starts somewhere, the "origin", and goes somewhere, the next waypoint; and why on God's green Earth would we want to HAVE to worry about the difference in where the "origin" waypoint comes from in our procedure flow. If I want to fly back to my origin after departure, then I will select it and then Direct To to it. As I have learned more about the IFD-540 and the fact that it is an incredible FMS, not just a navigator, then and only then have I come to understand the differences to some of the other navigators that many of us have become so familiar with in the past and present. My eyes were really opened to the logical differences when I attended a training by Gary Reeves of pilotsafety.org called the IFD Mastery Class. Knowing how something works logically is a must, Ie. the difference of Garmin button "showing what will happen when a press a button" vs. the Avidyne showing "this is what you are seeing now" with this button. That little bit of learning was huge for me, in beginning to understand and make friends with my IFD-540. But having to discover all of the little nuances, such as a route or FPL will always have an "Origin" airport displayed and be sequenced to the active leg of the next waypoint, except when it doesn't. Enough said, I think you get the idea.
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Alex Fassas
Avidyne IFD-540 Lynx NGT-9000+ Aspen MAX PFD1000, MFD1000 & MFD500 Beech A36 KRGA |
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allenc3
Senior Member Joined: 04 Feb 2019 Location: 32043 Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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You kind of got that right. The 1st time I did a flight plan out of my home airstrip (an airpark not in the database) using a user waypoint as the 1st waypoint, I was a little taken back when my autopilot directed my airplane to do a 180 and head back to my airstrip instead of simply cycling to net next waypoint. My issue should be solved in the next Jep database as they said they are adding my airstrip so I can then use my airstrip as an original just as my 430W would.,
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Claude
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Leonard
Senior Member Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Lafayette LA Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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"Having the ability to use a user waypoint as the Origin comes up pretty often" "Is it purely because of the extra step of having to activate the second leg or is there more to it?" Edited by Leonard - 19 Feb 2019 at 3:10pm |
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DH82FLYER
Groupie Joined: 15 Dec 2012 Location: Queensland Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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Steve, Part of the problem is that the Pilot Guide is very deficient in explaining these issues. The Guide needs to be updated to clarify the limitations of having a User Waypoint as the Departure Airfield. Thomas
Edited by DH82FLYER - 19 Feb 2019 at 5:38pm |
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FlyingCOham
Senior Member Joined: 30 Oct 2015 Location: COS (KFLY) Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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or just fix it so a user waypoint designated as an airport can be an origin, just saying...
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Jim Patton
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Sorry for the tangent, but it would be nice if selecting a runway would create a button-hook to your flight path - in the direction of the traffic pattern. Right now, my first leg originates from somewhere that I'm not departing the airport from, I'm assuming the center of the airport or the GPS waypoint of the airport. This is more noticeable during downwind departures, but I'm always off track on that first leg, and either just ignore it or i have to hit direct to at some point to center it up. If you enter the runway in your flight plan, the FMS could create a turn towards that leg just like it does when you make changes in flight.
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Bob H
Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2018 Location: NH - KMHT Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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Bob
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Maybe I'm using it wrong or mine doesn't work like everybody else's.
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Bob H
Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2018 Location: NH - KMHT Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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Bob
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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How about this: activate your flight plan after loading it. Taxi to wherever on the airport grounds you want your first leg starting point to be. Press the FMS function key and select the WPT tab. Then on the left select the PPOS LSK and make your selected airport location a user waypoint. Then go to the FPL tab and position the cursor between your departure airport and your first fix. Insert your new user waypoint at that position. Then activate the leg from that position to your first fix (activation step may not be necessary).
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Bob H
Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2018 Location: NH - KMHT Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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Bob
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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I don't think it's doing anything "wrong", but I disagree that it is not useful to change the behavior to have the CDI be "on-track". By your logic, why does Avidyne do button hooks while in flight instead of going simply point to point? I'm just asking that it apply the same logic to the first leg. On downwind departures, I don't want to fly my outbound leg against the inbound path to the runway, where the autopilot will take me when it centers the CDI. Are there other ways to address this, sure, but I just think using logic already in the unit to allow for a turn on course would make this a cleaner solution.
Edited by brou0040 - 25 Feb 2019 at 3:45pm |
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Bob H
Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2018 Location: NH - KMHT Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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Bob
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allenc3
Senior Member Joined: 04 Feb 2019 Location: 32043 Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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Uploaded the latest Jepp database, and again selected my home airpark (7FL4). Thanks to the Avidyne folks and Capt Jeppesen, I can now enter my home airpark as an original waypoint without doing any mental gymnastics. Yeah!
Finally got the IDF100 to talk to the 440 (databases synced) and even the training system is using the new database (7FL4 works their too). One thing though. On my Minis I can get the training system to be IDF 440's but on my Big Ipad I cannot get it out of IDF540 mode. Anyone know how to do that without reconfiguring the databases again? Claude |
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Claude
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HenryM
Senior Member Joined: 13 Oct 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 502 |
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On my iPad Pro 10.5" I go to Settings -> IFD Trainer, and set what device I want under Device Type. I can choose IFD550, IFD540 or IFD440.
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allenc3
Senior Member Joined: 04 Feb 2019 Location: 32043 Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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Yeah, I figured that out. When they were talking about settings, I thought they were talking about setup under the AUX key. Did not even think about settings on the ipads themselves. I am a slow learner, but everything is ok now.
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Claude
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