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IFD440 & NGT9000 Wiring and setup |
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Bonnell65 
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 Topic: IFD440 & NGT9000 Wiring and setupPosted: 27 Sep 2020 at 10:20pm |
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Have an Approach Fast Stack harness with IFD440 & NGT9000. Traffic anf Wx 422Out is wired to my IFD440 RS232 4 In. When setting configuration on IFD to receive the HS Trfc & Wx on RS232 4, I am getting traffic sensor fault and datalink fault. Is this wiring scenario at fault here, or is it something else?
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eallevato
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 11:39am |
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Did you configure the RS422 output of the NGT9000 to 115200 baud?
Gene
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Gene
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Bonnell65
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 12:33pm |
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Gonna check that tonight. I had a GTX335 and switched over to the NGT.
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skitheo
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Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 8:29pm |
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Which version of IFD software are you using? What speed do you have set on the output of RS-232 Channel 4? I believe 10.2.3.1 does not support asymmetric speeds for a given port. I.e. Out speed must == In speed. 10.2.4.1 fixes this, I believe, but can't confirm since my wiring was changed to accommodate the 10.2.3.1 constraint. Edit: encountered this very problem during panel upgrades last winter. IFD540 and NGT9000 were installed prior to the HS data compatibility. Edited by skitheo - 04 Oct 2020 at 8:31pm |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 10:20pm |
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I may have missed it in earlier thread, but why did you switch from GTX345 to the NGT?
Thanks. Tom W.
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rpostmo
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Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 12:49pm |
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Since the NGT uses it's own wifi to send data to a tablet, are you then unable to use the tablet as the IFD100 since it requires the LIO wifi?
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 4:29pm |
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The Wifi on the NGT is only suitable for sending data to ONE device. And, it doesn't work well in providing a hot spot environment. SO, instead, just hardwire the ADS-B data connection to the IFD, and use the IFD as the hot spot, to connect to your tablet. * Orest
Edited by oskrypuch - 06 Oct 2020 at 4:29pm |
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Bonnell65
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Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 4:24pm |
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To answer some questions from my original post...
I switched to the NGT from a GTX335 which did not have ads-b In and the Garmin product is more problematic when doing my own supervised work. I was able to eliminate the datalink error and the ADSB-In error by confirming the correct baud rate on the NGT to 115. So, I'm pushing TIS-B and FIS-b via NGT WiFi to my PEDs and I have the wired link between the NGT and the IFD, but it is now giving me a TIS-B not received icon. My other interesting change is when I started this effort I was getting SVS on the IFD. Since I started pushing TIS-B and FIS-B from the NGT to the IFD, the SVS has since stopped coming up. Before anyone says my receipt of GPS signal isn't allowing SBAS and subsequently, SVS, I continue to receive good enough WAAS to receive LPV approach standards. I haven't read any material that states a difference between SVS and LPV requirements. Thoughts? Corey |
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Bonnell65
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Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 4:28pm |
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After reading skitheo's post, should I decrease the baud rate, symmetrically between units, to a lower rate?
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Catani
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Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 10:33am |
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Orest, curious where that comes from? Is it from the NGT manual or L3 tech support? Or maybe just what you see in the cockpit? I've never heard of that limitation before, but then I haven't tested it either. |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 10:38am |
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Well, I should say, my information is second hand, from posts here. Reportedly the hot spot works for a while with multiple devices, and then becomes unresponsive. That may just need a firmware fix, so it may be addressed in future. If I was going to install an NGT, I would not count on its hot spot working at present, to be the primary host. * Orest
Edited by oskrypuch - 09 Oct 2020 at 10:40am |
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Catani
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Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 10:41am |
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The NGT can feed ADS-B and TAS traffic over a wired connection to the IFD. If the iPad is connected to the panel IFD's wifi, the panel IFD can forward that NGT data, as well as data it was already forwarding, to the IFD100. If you switch the iPad to the NGT's wifi, perhaps the IFD100 only sees the ADS-B and TAS data from the NGT. That would mean that there is no data upstreamed from the panel IFD through the NGT and out to the IFD100 (maybe because the panel IFD does not feed data to the NGT, or maybe because the NGT doesn't forward data received from the panel IFD?). And perhaps that's why you lost SVS - if you are using NGT's wifi now. Just my thoughts as requested, not authoritative by any means.
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Catani
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Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 11:07am |
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I was no doubt one of those posters. The early software versions of IFD panel mounts lacked the ability to receive ADS-B data from the NGT over a wired connection. Which meant that, in order to see ADS-B traffic and weather on ForeFlight on an iPad, you had to connect the iPad to the NGT's wifi, not the IFD's wifi. I experienced many "ADS-B disconnected" messages, and assumed it to be a problem with the Lynx NGT 9000 wifi module. But I lived with it. When the panel IFD software was updated, I had the wiring re-done so that the NGT sends its ADS-B and TAS data to the IFD, which now displays Lynx NGT traffic and weather nicely. I also switched the iPad to the panel IFD's wifi (to be able to swap flight plans), and found ForeFlight did still receive the NGT's weather and traffic - now being routed over a wired connection to the panel IFD and then forwared by a wifi connection on to the iPad from the panel IFD. All well and good. But I also discovered I still get "ADS-B disconnected" messages, even though I'm no longer using the NGT's wifi! And further, I find that ForeFlight continues to display weather and traffic despite those messages, just as before. So my working assumption now is there was never anything wrong with the NGT's wifi, but rather the problem is some software glitch that has ForeFlight reporting ADS-B disconnects when there really are none, or maybe there are but they are so short they do not impact any functionality. That's my "working assumption" so don't take it to the bank. But I'm not sure there's a tech that can explain the inter-workings of this stuff. Typically Avidyne people can't speak authoritatively about ForeFlight, nor the iPad, nor the NGT, and vice versa. Often all any tech can do at one company is to suggest the problem is with another company. To me, the iPad and its apps seem to work fine in the cockpit or out, so I don't think it's an Apple problem. And the ADS-B disconnect issues happen with both the NGT and the IFD, suggesting to me the problem is not with either of those boxes. By process of elimination, I now suspect ForeFlight. Whatever the reason, it seems harmless. The combination could never be certified with hiccups like this, but again, it's not intended to be certified. To me, it's still useful nonetheless. Given my working assumption, I no longer hold the Lynx NGT's wifi responsible for the ForeFlight disconnect messages. I'm not going back to it, however, because I want the panel IFD's capability to swap flight plans with ForeFlight. For grins I've momentarily switched the iPad wifi from the IFD to the NGT to see if it works, and it still does. And I suppose it's nice to have as a backup for displaying ADS-B weather and traffic on ForeFlight, in case the panel IFD's wifi or the IFD itself stops working. |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 3:38pm |
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Thanks Catani! * Orest
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skitheo
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Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 5:46pm |
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No, you need to keep the data at high rate in order to receive all of the FIS-B products. Both the NGT-9000 and IFD require that high speed. Either upgrade IFD software to 10.2.4.1 or move the RS-232 OUT which does not match the speed to another IFD port. Since my integration was prior to 10.2.4.1 release, I had to move the IFD RS-232 OUT to a different port.
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PA23
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 4:34pm |
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I have my IFD440 connected successfully to my NGT-9000, the setting on the IFD440 was to enable "Capstone protocol (highspeed)" on the IFD serial port I used, on the NGT-9000 set the baud rate to 115200. I am wired as shown in this diagram: https://techsupport.avidyne.com/kb/article/303-355-l3-ngt9000-interface-with-avidyne-ifd5xx4xx/ My only variation is I went to pin 59 which is RS-232 IN #2 on the IFD as my blind encoder was already connected to serial #1, Note the diagram shows it being connected to serial port #1 and erroneously calls it serial #2 in the included instructions. If you need a configuration picture from from the NGT-9000 let me know and I'll get that for you
Edited by PA23 - 13 Oct 2020 at 4:42pm |
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PA23
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 4:46pm |
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Actually I spoke to ACSS about their WiFi module and they said it will support transmitting up to 6 devices. I would however change the channel on IFD to something other than channel 1 as neither device has a real robust wifi module and when both devices are on channel 1, eventually one or both will stop talking, unless you make the IFD a client to the NGT. to change the channel on the IFD append the number 6 or 11 to your SSID and the channel will be changed.
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HenryM
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 5:37pm |
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Why is the hotspot of the NGT9000 needed at all? Wouldn't you always wire the NGT9000 to the IFD and then get traffic and weather through theIFD's WiFi network, like Catani described above?
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skitheo
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Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 8:09pm |
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When the NGT-9000 was released the IFD or/and the NGT didn't support the Capstone High-speed. Therefore, the IFD couldn't provide FIS-B over WiFi because it wasn't receiving it from the NGT. The other possible reason is that the NGT-9000 WiFi looks like a Stratux data stream to EFBs. If your EFB is compatible with Stratux but not IFD, then you still need the NGT WiFi. Hey AviSteve, how about getting some more Android EFBs compatible with IFDs? EDIT: I've had both IFD540 and NGT-9000 since 2016. Only in late 2019 did I get the RS-232 wire added for the hi-speed capability enabled in 10.2.3.1(?). And yes, my LIO WiFi is on channel 6. Added image showing FIS-B & TIS-B at PAFA. Edited by skitheo - 13 Oct 2020 at 8:27pm |
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PA23
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Posted: 14 Oct 2020 at 6:10pm |
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I made a mistake on my NGT-9000 settings and I want to make sure I provide correct information. Attached is a screenshot from the MPC program showing the configuration of my RS-422 port to be 115,200 NOT 38,400 bps. The Avidyne I did state correctly as "Capstone HS Trfc+Wx"
The wiring information I referenced is correct. Jeff
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Jim_CAK
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Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 9:46pm |
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Thanks for posting this topic. I have an IFD440 and the Lynx NGT9000. I was getting traffic and weather correctly displayed on the IFD. I had a Nav tuner issue on the IFD and the avionics shop had to send it back to Avidyne. After they re-installed it - I don’t get weather or traffic on the IFD.
The avionics shop had me check the RS232 settings and told me it should be set to Capstone HS Traffic + Wx. Any idea how I know what channel to set the protocol? I picked Channel 1 but did could not get in the air to see if it is working. Is this setting dependent on the pin# used to connect the Lynx to the IFD? I have a note into the avionics shop but have not heard back. Also - They did not tell me to set the corresponding output to any particular value. Are there different options for output? Edited by Jim_CAK - 30 Nov 2020 at 9:48pm |
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skitheo
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Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 11:45pm |
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Your shop needs to tell you which channel to set to the Capstone HS Traffic + Wx. It DOES depend on which pin # they connected. The output setting for that channel will depend on what they have connected to the associated pin, which could be completely unrelated to the NGT-9000. They should tell you what all of the RS-232 and ARINC 429 channel settings should be so you can verify. You can verify that you are getting traffic on the IFD by powering up both units and setting the NGT-9000 in "Self-Test" mode. That will send traffic information over the wire to anything which is connected, IFD, EFD, or MFD. You should see the traffic pop up for about 15 seconds. Hope this helps.
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PA23
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Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 10:25am |
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Jim, there are 4 input serial ports on the IFD4X0, with #3 recommended but not mandatory that it be reserved for communications between 2 IFD units. My suggestion is either ask the radio shop to verify which serial port is in use for the traffic. If he doesn't know or you are unable to get out to the shop you can try skitheo's suggestion as trial and error or you can lessen the trial and error and you are comfortable with doing so is to pull the radio from the stack, take a picture of the large connector to see which pins are in use, this might sound extreme but it will also tell you if you have anything else wired for sending or receiving serial data from the IFD. The connector is numbered as follows when looking at the pins:
The pins you are interested in are:
Cell phone cameras (possibly with the flash on) usually do a pretty good job of taking pictures of the back of the tray so you can zoom in on the connector and count the pins. Without knowing your airplane and the equipment you have installed the question now is, are there any other serial devices connected to your IFD that the radio shop did not re-enable, eg blind encoder using serial as opposed to grey code? At the very least this will tell you which serial ports are wired for use. Once you get your serial ports straightened out I would recommend taking a picture of each of the 13 configuration pages for future reference in the event you have this problem again in the future. -PA
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Jim_CAK
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Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 5:23am |
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Thanks guys!
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Sambo
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 11:30am |
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Hi can you please help and tell me how I can change my Lynx 422 output to the higher baud rate of 1152200 please myself.
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Shazam😎
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Sambo
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 11:52am |
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Hi, can I please get some help with my IPad using Foreflight and it continually disconnects when hooked up to the Avidyne LIO Wifi thus loosing traffic and weather constantly. So I looked and my Avidyne IFD RS232 input is set to Capstone Trfc+Wx with Output of MapMx and not to the Capstone HS one. Can I please get your help to set my my Lynx 422 Baud Rate to the 115200 baud rate and my IFD input set then to Capstone HS Trfc+Wx and my output at still the MapMX and also have the LIO_Wifi6 set to channel 6 and this will then help fix the Foreflight Disconnect? I will need assistance on how I can go into the Lynx by USB or Wifi and verify it’s baud rate is set to the highest also of 115200 baud rate with your help please. This would be a fantastic Christmas gift to finally fix this Avidyne IPad Disconnect issue that’s been plaguing me for over two years even after sending in my IFD for a new Wifi antenna.
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Shazam😎
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PA23
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 2:55pm |
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What is disconnecting, your Wi-Fi on your tablet to the Wi-Fi of the IFD? If so I'd recommend changing the channel that the IFD uses from channel 1 (the default) to channel 6, you do this by simply changing the SSID name and appending the number "6" to the SSID, eg LILO_wifi -> LILO_wifi6 changes the SSID name and the channel. The above assumes you are still getting the traffic and WX display on your IFD when your tablet loses its connectivity. In regards to the serial settings, it is a one way communication from the Lynx to the IFD so only the input on the IFD is used. Capstone trfc+wx should be fine if you have the Lynx set to 38400. If you want to change the speed setting on the Lynx to 115200 you will need to sign up on ACSS' website and obtain an account, from there you can download the configuration software. |
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Sambo
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 3:20pm |
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Hi that’s correct my wifi of the IPad from the IFD Disconnects constantly. I have tried already changing to Channel 6 as you mentioned and still same Disconnect issue. Per Avidyne, I’ve pulled Lynx wifi fuse, Ive pulled whole Lynx breaker, I’ve changed Lynx Channel to something other than IFD channel,
Done all this and the Avidyne IFD continually disconnects. Avidyne even replaced my IFD WiFi antenna and after all of this the dreaded “Avidyne IFD Disconnected” happens on my ipad. per request, I have even put my cellphone in airplane mode, I have “forgotten the Lynx wifi”, Imhave made the LIO Wifi be “Private” and the same results happen. So this has been going on since my avionics suites been installed. Lynx support has been great of giving their suggestions for me to try also. I have run out of ideas and I truly hate that there hasn’t been a fix presented that works for my issue. I watch many YouTube channels of others using an Avidyne IFD (even 2) with a Lynx Transponder and they don’t mention any issues of their Avidyne IFD Disconnecting. So please what is the fix? I am willing to try almost anything. Thanks and sorry it’s long winded but I have never given up to fix this “Avidyne IFD Disconnect” issue. Merry Christmas
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Shazam😎
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dmtidler
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 3:50pm |
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Just out of curiosity...Have you been configuring your iPad to be in airplane mode with just WiFi activated (Bluetooth off) when WiFi connected to your panel IFD? Have you tried this following a power cycle of you iPad? Do you use the IFD100 app and if so, is it having the same disconnecting issues? Are you closing other apps so that ForeFlight is the only app open? If you WiFi connect your phone to your IFD540 (also in airplane mode with Bluetooth off), even without running a compatible app, does it periodically disconnect too?
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PA23
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 4:03pm |
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How did you change the WiFi channel that the Lynx is using? There is no way to do so. I believe you can pull the module out and reprogram it on a bench but you have to follow Roving Networks instructions on the Wi-Fly module. I would also find a "wifi analyzer" and verify that the IFD and the Lynx are on separate channels. I don't use an iPad so I cannot comment on its wifi issues, although I have a friend that flies my plane who does use an iPad and hasn't had any problems. (the Lynx uses wifi channel 1 and the IFD uses wifi channel 6) Note there are only 3 usable Wi-Fi channels in the US, 1, 6, and 11 due to how the channels overlap each other. Jeff
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Catani
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 4:28pm |
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See my post above regarding my experiences with this issue. As stated above, I've concluded it's a problem with ForeFlight, and there's actually nothing significant going on. Only on rare occasions, in my case, does the annoying alert result in any degradation of ForeFlight's ADS-B weather and traffic data. I now regard it as a nuisance and nothing more. I have all the ADS-B traffic and weather on my Lynx display, as well as the IFD, so I don't regard the ForeFlight connection issue as critical. But I do like it thanks to its size and easy manipulation as an iPad app, and for me, most of the time all the ADS-B stuff there. If your problem is actual permanent loss of ForeFlight's ADS-B weather and traffic data, and not just an annoying alert, then you have a different problem I cannot help you with. Good luck, and Merry Christmas to you too!
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Sambo
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 8:41pm |
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Hi Jeff, the good people at L3 Lynx gave me specific zip file to extract and then change the channel dongle by wifi. This was a one time application they allowed me to do and I did verify it was changed from 1 to 6 thus leaving the IFD at channel 1 and the Avidyne IFD Disconnect still existed.
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Shazam😎
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Sambo
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 11:37pm |
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Hi, I have tried the IPad in airplane mode with the Bluetooth off and didn’t help. I’m trying to fix this Avidyne IFD disconnect issue 1st before using the IFD100 app. I’ve closed everything with only the FF opened . I’ve tried my cell phone in airplane mode with BT off. I’ve even left my cellphone out of the airplane. When the iPad disconnects the cell phone disconnects also.
Thanks but still need some suggestions. I am having a hard time believing others have the same issues. I’ve watched other pilot YouTube videos and they don’t have these issue of Avidyne IFD Disconnecting and the also use FF. Thanks
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Shazam😎
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oskrypuch wrote: