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ddgates View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Dec 2014 at 5:27pm
I am currently trying to work through an accounting fiasco with Jeppesen and American Express.

The crux of the matter is duplicate charges, incorrect crediting, and accounts receivable errors at Jeppesen.  Their accounting department is unbelievably incompetent.

If there were any other source of navdata for these new Avidyne boxes I bought, I would have already bailed on Jeppesen.  

Since there is no other potential sourcing, we are de facto hostages to Jeppesen.

I urge Avidyne to seek other sourcing arrangements; would personally suggest Seattle Avionics.

I suspect other Avidyne owners may agree.
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+1
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-1

But, as long as one has a choice, not an issue. I'm a Jepp guy.

Sure their front office is a bit off, but their plates are top notch, and you get the same format in the US and Canada (and world-wide), so I'm covered for my travels.

In Canada you have to pay about as much for NavCanada plates as for Jepps, we don't have a lower cost option available, so Jepps make sense for me. That is probably true for the UK and much of Europe.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 23 Dec 2014 at 8:57pm
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ddgates View Drop Down
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So, you are really saying, you like Jepp, but support choice?  That is what I am advocating, so we agree...

In truth they were a relatively tight business operation until Boeing acquired them; now their front office is substantially more than a little off.




Edited by ddgates - 23 Dec 2014 at 9:53pm
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I hear you guys but I'm not optimistic.   Several years back when we had to make a decision, Seattle Avionics didn't have sufficient global coverage.  So, we had to place our bets with Jepp and worked out some interesting bundling options to go along with their high quality data products.

It's a massive (and I mean massive) undertaking to shift data providers or add the support for alternative data providers/formats.   We can't justify spending the time and money on that effort when there are so many other features/products on the roadmap that we (and many of you) deem essential.

We'll continue to work it from our end to try and help Jepp become a more well oiled operation.   Not being so reflects poorly upon us.
Steve Jacobson
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ddgates View Drop Down
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Steve:

Appreciate your thoughts.  

My conclusions:
  • The Jeppesen product is very good
  • The Jeppesen company is not user friendly 
  • The process of obtaining subscriptions and data is too error prone, and cumbersome (I have literally spent 12 person-hours trying to correct an overcharge by Jepp which they told me couldn't happen)
  • A sourcing alternative for navdata would be a good strategy for Avidyne (as I have been working through this billing problem, I am reminded over and over again that since I have bought the 540s, I don't have a choice but to continue to deal with Jepp)
I know Steve Podradchik is interested in working with Avidyne; I think now he feels he has the infrastructure to be a data supplier for the IFD540.

An alternative vendor sourcing would help, as would improvements in the Jeppesen front end, as well as clarity/standardization of packages, pricing, and nomenclature.

BTW - I love my 540s!

Happy holidays to all.



Edited by ddgates - 24 Dec 2014 at 9:52am
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Steve:

Remember the grid you posted on Jepp options?  

I should have my head examined but just tried to convert the Navdata package for my IFDs to the bundle.

Per their rep, the only bundles they show are:
A bundle for Navdata and charts for the $994 price.  No obstacles or terrain updating.
A bundle for Navdata, charts and something for iPads.  Not interested.

Do you have a Jepp product number for the bundle you referenced in your post?  Can Avidyne do anything to make this process reliable?

Thanks.




Edited by ddgates - 12 Jan 2015 at 11:10am
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Frustrating.  Passed it along to our Jepp rep this morning and following up with phone call later today.
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ddgates View Drop Down
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Would you maybe post Jepp product numbers once you get a response from your rep?

The basic bundle (national IFR, charts, terrain, obstacles) would probably be what most 540 owners would choose, so if we could ask for Jepp product XXXXXX, it might make this work better.

If they can't get it right, again suggest consideration of second sourcing.

Thanks.
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Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Frustrating.

Yes.  As a Jepp customer, this sums up every single experience I have ever had with their customer "support".

I cringe every time I have to deal with them.  I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

They would not be able to get away with their absolutely awful customer service...

...except that they're the only game in town.

I hate that, too.


Edited by MysticCobra - 12 Jan 2015 at 11:45am
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I am (tentatively) happy to report that thanks to Jake's intervention, I have been connected with at least one person at Jepp who understands our boxes, our needs, and the update process.

She took the initiative to rework my subscription(s) to give me the bundle that Jake has claimed to exist but nobody (at least in my experience) at Jepp could find.

Beyond that, she was actually pleasant, knowledgeable, and easy going.

Maybe, it is done.  

Edit: The right package Charts, Navdata, and Obstacles, are now in my JSUM.  The Jepp contact says that the terrain update will come later when provided by Avidyne.

I have queried this individual regarding posting her contact info.


Edited by ddgates - 13 Jan 2015 at 11:19am
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Can we have the name, and how to get hold of her? Just the regular GA number?

* Orest
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ddgates View Drop Down
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Response from Jepp rep:

"Unfortunately I am not always available for customer support.  But what I can do is be available through our Service email.  Please have any other Avidyne IFD customers email our inbox Captain@jeppesen.com and I will be sure to support questions/comments from this inbox within 48 hours.  And if someone needs to discuss over the phone, we can coordinate through that medium."
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So we email to that general account, and simply indicate "question about Avidyne IFD540" ?

* Oest
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 The Jepp contact says that the terrain update will come later when provided by Avidyne. [/QUOTE]

I receive the terrain update thru JSUM each update cycle.
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Are you sure it is terrain?

Obstacles is done monthly; I don't think terrain is.
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What came out in January 8? That's the one I tried.
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Obstacles.
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Sorry.  You are correct.  It is obstacles that I get with the updates
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Terrain is updated very infrequently - it would be surprising if there was an update already vs what the IFD540 shipped with.
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ddgates View Drop Down
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OK - settled.  Terrain update infrequent.

So - after nothing but problems, Jake navigated the Jepp system, and I made contact with a credible support person.

I had just NavData.  Now I have:
NavData
Charts  (yay! real Jepp plates!)
Obstacles
Terrain (intermittent)
Jepp Mobile FD (which playing with it on iPad I think I am really going to like, at least for the IFR platform.  I have SV on my Aspens and have active traffic (thanks Avidyne).  If Aspen ever gets their act together I will have ADS-B WX and Traffic on the Aspens as well.

Don't see as I need FF or GP (until Avidyne unless connectivity between iPad and 540).

I think I'm good.  Now.

Thanks, Jake.


Edited by ddgates - 13 Jan 2015 at 5:35pm
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Newest ask for new connection targets.

Using the 540 for position sense and flight plan transfer to Jepp mobile FD would be an ideal pairing.
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+1 for GPS location data to Jepp mobile FD. WOuld not want to exclude FF for Flight plan updates if that is an option.

Edited by fritz - 14 Jan 2015 at 10:34am
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Copy all.
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Steve,
So that we all get from Jepp what we are suppose to get, can you post somewhere the correct part number we should ask for when we set up our monthly subscription and what that part number should provide to the user?
 
I think that will help.


Edited by tony - 22 Jan 2015 at 1:42pm
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Tony:

This is what I have for the IFR bundle:

Integrated Bundled Services Avidyne Bundle Fee

Revision Service.Integrated Bundled Services.Standard with Jeppview.Annual - 1 Integrated Bundled Services.Avidyne.Model 13-JAN-15 through 08-DEC-15

1 N6106V
Terrain Coverage Avidyne IFD540 Worldwide

Electronic Assembly Electronic

Chart Services Avidyne IFD540 Jepp Services Suite Plus IFR Software

Chart Services Avidyne Jepp Services Suite plus IFR Avionics Chart Services Full USA JV MFD IFR Coverage
Chart Services Avidyne IFD540 Second Unit Avionics
Chart Services Full USA JV MFD IFR Coverage

Electronic
Electronic
Electronic
NavData IFR Coverage Avidyne IFD540 Full USA Obstacles Coverage Avidyne IFD540 Full USA


Maybe this helps.



 
10502628
10129491

10502558
10502631

10502578
10018495
10544564
10018495
10502544
10502554

*

1 1

1 1

1 1 1 1 1 1

1,145.50

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Jake,Would you explain how the Jepp subscription is supposed to work for 2 IFDs?  I know it is the same cost whether you have 1 IFD or 2 IFDs.   Since I have 2,  I would expect my JSUM site to have 2 updates of the Nav Data so I can put one on each FOB and install into both of my IFDs at the same time.  Each cycle I see only 1 update my JSUM site and have to call in and have another added.  Finally, after calling again today, I was told that Jepp normally supplies only 1 update for 1 FOB and that FOB is used to install on both IFDs.  I explained I prefer to have 2 available so I can put updat 2 FOBs and install both units at the same time.  He told me he would make that change on my account so it is easier for me, but at the next renewal I would be charged double and would have to call in to explain and have it corrected.
What is your understanding of how this is handled by Jepp for 2 units?
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Just use windows to copy your downloaded Jepp information from FOB1 to FOB2.
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Good point Geoff. . Guess I'm so used to the old Garmin way, I couldn't see the forest through the trees. I guess all dual 540 owners are seeing just the one available update then?
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Yup, btw, with the Garmin 430/530 Jsum download software you could do something similar and update multiple cards from a single subscription...
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NOW you tell me. Lol!  Since the Avidyne bundle covers as many IFDs that you have in the panel, it seems the easiest solution would be for JEPP to not have the updates remaining counter, count down to zero.  It should just stay at 1 as it does with the electronic approach chart subscription and all FOBs could be updated in a standardized way.


Edited by teeth6 - 21 Feb 2015 at 9:19am
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Geoff,
I tried your system today and had no luck.  I downloaded the NAV data onto my first FOB and then used Windows to copy and paste onto my 2nd FOB.  When installing onto my 540s, the first FOB installed fine but the 2nd FOB gave an error message of "Data Load Not Authorized."  I called Jepp and they said this system of copying would not work and that Avidyne is now suggesting to download two separate Nav data files onto 2 separate FOBs.  They acknowledged that their system is not set up yet to do this but they are aware of the problem and it will be fixed before the next cycle.  Jepp plans to email everyone with a dual 540 setup.  I'm not sure why the copy/paste system is working for you.
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Teeth6,
Make sure both units have the same registration in Maintenance mode.
Worked for me two days ago. The only security I see they've implimented is the authorize.dat file which is tied to your "N" number, which needs to been setup during installation on both units.
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Don't know what others have experienced but the unintended consequence of the cost of Jeppesen navdata through the bundle if you buy charts is that you get also.

The PC based programs:
  • Jepp View
  • FlightDeck

and you get the iPad app JeppFD, which I really like.  

If you like looking at plates on your tablet (I do), the Jepp plates on the iPad are terrific.
David Gates
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That is intentionally part of the bundle.
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Then, well done!

I hope that Avidyne is considering working with Jepp on connectivity between the IFD540 and JeppFD.
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Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

Don't know what others have experienced but the unintended consequence of the cost of Jeppesen navdata through the bundle if you buy charts is that you get also.

The PC based programs:
  • Jepp View
  • FlightDeck

and you get the iPad app JeppFD, which I really like.  

If you like looking at plates on your tablet (I do), the Jepp plates on the iPad are terrific.


I came from using Jepp's Navsuite, so converted over to the new bundle with Jeppview and Flightdeck. They are great pieces of software, and "thrown in" with the package.

Unfortunately Jepp only has a more basic android Flightdeck app, but it will certainly view charts nicely.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 28 Feb 2015 at 9:13pm
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All respect.

Not true.  I have JeppFD on my iPad, and I love it.
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Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

Not true.  I have JeppFD on my iPad, and I love it.



Not sure if you were commenting on my post. Yes, the iOS Flightdeck "FD" app is quite nice. The android app is the version 1.x one (Flightdeck TC), and is only a chart viewer.

I have no iThingies.

* Orest
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Agree.
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I've learned that not only is it important to contact
captain@jeppesen.com for assistance with the Avidyne bundles, it is required.

She's been very helpful assisting me with selecting a bundle appropriate for my flying habits.  When I asked if I should email her or make the purchase online, she responded:

The only option to purchase online is ala carte which will be a lot more pricey.  Please email us...

You do need a Jeppesen account set up, provide that in the email.

Perhaps this will reduce some of the frustration expressed here.  Would it be worth a notice to all  owners?  I almost bought online and was lucky enough to find this thread first.
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I am going thru the same thing ... emailed Captain last night and got a reply this morning...very nice !!!!
Now its only my ignorance that needs getting worked out !!!

Question: on the bundles there are 8 ... all america... east central.... west central... etc
As I don't have an IFR  ticket yet, but will have by end of year ... should i stay with the loaded data on IFD for now until i get closer to check ride?? save money ??? Or go ahead and get a bundle now ??? 
And I am guessing that "east central america" is cheaper than "all america" bundle ??
Please excuse my ignorance on this... can't learn if you don't ask questions. 
This is my first time dealing with IFR in the panel other than forelight practicing 

and also a cardinal driver as well !!! Love the cardinal 

thanks 



Edited by Don - 03 Mar 2015 at 10:35pm
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chflyer View Drop Down
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The Jepp Navdata coverage of Central Europe is about 11% more expensive for a single IFD540 compared to the G430W (EUR344 vs EUR310). There is a separate subscription available for coverage of ALL VFR airfields (not available for the G430W. I assume this means additional non-ICAO VFR airfields since ICAO VFR airfields are already in the basic coverage) but the price for this is additional 75% (EUR259). I've asked if there is a bundle of the two coverages since there is an overlap between the two (ICAO VFR airfields).... answer pending.

Can anyone confirm that a single Navdata subscription can be loaded into 2 IFD's? I'll be replacing my G430W with an IFD440 and it would be nice if the IFD440 would be included under the IFD540 subscription.





Edited by chflyer - 04 Mar 2015 at 3:13am
Vince
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Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:


Can anyone confirm that a single Navdata subscription can be loaded into 2 IFD's? I'll be replacing my G430W with an IFD440 and it would be nice if the IFD440 would be included under the IFD540 subscription.


Confirmed, your license is by aircraft registration, not unit s/n. And that is a big net savings over the G platform.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Mar 2015 at 11:51am
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Originally posted by Don Don wrote:

As I don't have an IFR  ticket yet, but will have by end of year ... should i stay with the loaded data on IFD for now until i get closer to check ride?? save money ??? Or go ahead and get a bundle now ???


There's no right answer, but here's my experience.

In the push towards your IFR check ride you will almost certainly shoot more approaches and do more holds than you do in the next several years.  I was a better, more experienced, more confident pilot on the day of my check ride than 2 years later.  It wasn't that I didn't fly, but I didn't fly under the hood or in IMC nearly as often.  I use my IFR as a backup and skill booster, a way to get through cloud layers, and don't launch if low IFR is predicted.

That tells me that having the subscription now, when you are intensely learning to work the airplane, the radios, and the ATC system is probably more important than later. 

So I would get that subscription now.

Good luck on your ticket!  The Cardinal makes a great instrument platform.  Do you participate in CFO, cardinalflyers.com?


Edited by cardinal driver - 04 Mar 2015 at 10:09am
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Thanks cardinal for that !!! I will go ahead and figure out the right bundle that i need and go for it !!!! i do like to hear other peoples experience. What you said makes perfect sense. 
Yes definitely, on the CFO.. love those guys.. Taking the cardinal to winter haven fly in this year and sun n fun as well ... can't wait its gonna be a lot of fun !!! 
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I'm trying to decide what to buy for our new IFD 540.

We want everything for now.  And there are two possible bundles.

One bundle gives us everything for the entire US for about $1000.

The other bundle gives us everything east of the Mississippi.  It is about the same price and we're unlikely to fly west of the Mississippi.  It comes with data for up to four mobile devices.

Can someone explain to me why I would want the data on mobile devices?  We're currently using Foreflight and don't plan to switch (with the caveat that we'll consider it if some other program does great things with the IFD and Foreflight doesn't).
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I am a fore flight guy too and I had the same quandary ... i battled it in my head for about two weeks and did the research on the Flight Deck IFR add on from jep... if you have been using it for a while its a no brainer.. but using fore flight I can go to whatever I need in seconds and i have the option for vfr .. IFR low en route views etc. thru FF... plus the stratus II w/ syn vision is pretty sweet, but i have been using FF for two years also  ... the bundle they offered me was 994 for all US charts etc. for IFD, and 1290 i think for the IFD, Mobile FD for pads and smart tablets, and a windows based program for computer flight planning etc. ( I use MAC so that doesn't work for me)  the way i see it is thats a 300 dollar program I don't need.. and I am using FF for viewing charts, plates, flight plans etc.  and kinda have more with it as well. Both the IFD and Jepp are evolving and I may change down the road, but for now with my flying styles and locations I am perfectly fine with fore flight. and the all us 994 option. 
Also I watched a few videos on the Jepp IFR flight deck mobile for iPads and its a whole new learning experience coming from fore flight ... not something i need right now, trying to learn the IFD :-) , and Jepp FD, just my two cents .. but definitely contact Captain for your help with Jep
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Paul,
I was in the same situation as you and had everything East of the Mississippi when I had my Garmin 430s.  At that time I was not a Foreflight user and liked the Jepp mobile maps on my IPad for use in flight with an external GPS antenna.  I also liked being able to look at and print approach plates from my PC via JeppView.  I am now a Foreflight user but like you, don't normally fly West of the Mississippi so I opted to keep the same Jepp subscription.  Even though, I no longer use the Jepp maps in flight, I still like the ability to have access to them.  There is more chance of me using the mobile app or Jeppview than needing anything West of the Mississippi.  Hope this helps.
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