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Garmin G5 and IFD 540

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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:59pm
Anything can fail, but mechanical, vacuum driven instruments are far more likely to stop indicating, than electronic ones.

But, if you are all electric, ideally you would have an alternate source of power (in a twin or with a standby alternator), and at a minimum have them independently battery backed'up. I put in a standby alternator when I went all electronic and pulled the vacuum system.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 29 Jun 2017 at 5:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 1:25am
So can dual G5's feed air data to the IFD540?

Seems like dual G5 + IFD540 + Trio A/P is a good IFR solution, made even better with air data connection.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 2:04pm
Just as a small note about back up stuff -- When I eliminated all of the stock air instruments I did retain a vaccuum powered T&B along with the electrc T&B. The vacuum is supplied by a venturi mounted a couple feet aft of the exhaust. If all else fails it is needle,  ball, and airspeed, for me.

Works great! Very light weight and relatively cheap.

Happy Skies,

Old Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote AUXAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 7:39pm

The vacuum pump on my Cessna 182RG failed yesterday on a flight.  It had the usual symptoms, starting with "the leans", finally dying completely.  However it was not an issue at all because I had replaced my IFD 540 with an IFD550 several months ago.

The AHRS display on the 550  presented a very fine display in Synthetic Vision mode and was a most credible substitute for an attitude indicator!

David E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 4:21pm
Again: 

Can dual G5's feed air data to IFD540/440s?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2017 at 9:33am
I was going to just flat-out say "no" because it isn't listed in Section 2.3 of the install manual, which covers the list of approved ADCs. However, the header for that section says "The following list represents the proven interfaces. There may be other devices that can be configured the same as one on the below list but Avidyne has not tested it and can therefore not make any compatibility claims." 

Therefore, I'll rephrase my answer: neither Avidyne nor Garmin says you can feed air data to an IFD from single or dual G5s but maybe you can do some "Cajun engineering" and figure out a way to make it work, at which point you probably have paperwork issues with the FAA. I would love for this capability to be formally supported… but first, Garmin, please please please add autopilot pickoff support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luchetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 2:51am
I think Avidyne should develop a similar product and add the features we need for compatibility issues. If Dynon, GRT and Garmin can do it, it shouldn't take years for Avi to come out with something similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 9:06am
Originally posted by ronl ronl wrote:

Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

but I'll stay mechanical for my backups, thanks.


When all the pretty screens go dark inside a wet bumpy cloud it is very comforting to cast ones eyes on the face of an old friend:

I had 2 Aspens in a previous airplane and really enjoyed them. I had a Midcontinent Lifesaver Gyro with battery as my backup. They are rated at 7500 hours before failure. (I doubt there are any G5's with 200 hours on them yet.) Even though I was new to Aspens, I always felt comfortable with that set-up.

I have a Midcontinent Lifesaver with battery as a replacement for my turn coordinator in the airplane I have now. If I ever put an Aspen in I'm set. It just feels to me like better redundancy than the G5 that Garmin openly admits is not recommended as a backup. Even though the software updates have helped make it more stable, it was released with the original software that gave pilots false attitude readings. How does a product get released like that? It would take a lot more total hours by a lot of pilots for me to feel very comfortable with it. It seems like it was rushed to the market. I've never had a desire to be a test pilot. From what I've read about the L-3 Genesis, it seems like a proper backup. The ARS on my IFD550 will serve as tie-breaker if my two attitude indicators disagree.


Edited by LANCE - 09 Jul 2017 at 8:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 9:49am
I can think of no ndstrument more reliable than a venturi driven T&B.

Happy Skies,

Old Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzAv8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 1:13pm
Everything can fail.  Venturis can ice up, and any mechanical gyro has bearings.   (The venturi is at least independent of avgas, so it keeps working during that oh-no! glide through the undercast.)   And there are a number of posts on some of the type forums about G5s and Quattros dying en-mass, some stating the Garmin and Sandia have stopped shipping.   in the 35 years I've been flying (and I didn't fly a lot until we bought our plane 12 years ago), I've had about 5 vacuum instrument or system failures, two electric gyro failures, and three alternator failures.  (The majority in rental aircraft, a few right after we bought our plane).   Never in true IMC, although one was in virtual IMC (night, remote mountainous terrain with no horizon lights, no moon).   Perhaps luckily, I was in the middle of my IFR training and my cross-check proficiency kept me from entering a death-spiral.  

The key is complete independence of the backup system.  An independent battery-backed electronic AI seems to me to (potentially) provide the safest solution, since it would be standalone.   When my vacuum pump hits the 500-hour "mandatory" replacement time, I'll be selecting the self-contained electronic alternative for my backup AI.   Ultimately I'll probably put a back-up alternator on the mounting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobsV35B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 3:52pm
Agreed that anything can fail, but the most likely thing to fail is the aviator.  

We regularly hear stories of airplanes being lost due to simple failures when the aviator does not have the ability to use the back up instrumentation. Needle - ball only works if you have recent practice. A back up gyro is only useful if the aviator has currency and confidence in it's use.

In my not so humble opinion, simpler is better!

Happy Skies,

Old Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AzAv8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 5:25pm
Indeed!  From NTSB reports, seems like way too many tragic aviation accidents are transformed from incidents to accidents by pilot error, and often by pilots who should know better.    

So, the key is actually:  pilot proficiency and situational awareness.  But redundancy is not very far behind.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2017 at 2:53pm
One of my favorites, "The only place you can truly buy safety is at the store that sells pilot training."

I used to be part-owner of a flight school, and I loved that phrase.  The only problem was that it seemed self-serving, so I never got to use it.  I had to get other people to say it for me.

No piece of equipment provides safety like knowledge and proficiency.
The aviator is more likely to the the cause of any accident than the equipment.

My airplane has one engine, one propeller, one alternator, one vacuum pump, one oil pump, and the list goes on.  Yet even with all that, the most likely cause of an accident is me, the one pilot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2017 at 8:37pm
Got a 172N and I have a IFD 550.  I'm an IFR pilot.
I'm leaving for Oshkosh this Friday to purchase a Trio or TruTrak which will replace my current ARC Autopilot (not working).  I also plan to buy a stand alone AI.
I have a vacuum AI and DG currently installed right over the yoke.
I was in intermittent IFR two days ago and had the synthetic vision on.  I actually liked the AI and DG display better than the Syn vis.  The problem was the horizontal attitude bar on the Syn Vis is not adjustable up and down (maybe I just haven't read enough of the manual).   There's a lot of data on the Syn vis display and the AI is really simple to read.
Anyway I was just wondering:
1  Which manufacturers make a stand alone AI?
2  Do both TruTrak and Trio autopilots follow the magenta line?


 
JWJ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DH82FLYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 10:38am
Garmin has just announced G5 HSI support for the following autopilots, this coming September.
Also GPSS Roll Steering support, with GTN or GNS input, will be a feature. Avidyne needs to urgently make the IFD's compatible with the G5, as this is going to be very popular...

o   Century II/III
o   Century IV (AC), IV (DC)
o   Century 21/31/41
o   Century 2000
o   Cessna 400B
o   Cessna 300 IFCS/400 IFCS
o   Honeywell (Bendix King) KAP 100/150/200
o   Honeywell (Bendix King) KFC 150/200
o   Honeywell (Bendix King) KAP 140
o   Honeywell (Bendix King) KFC 225
o   S-TEC 20/30/40/50/55/60-1/60-2/65
o   S-TEC 60 PSS
o   S-TEC 55X






Edited by DH82FLYER - 18 Jul 2017 at 11:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 1:06pm
I don't know how popular this will be. From the marketing information provided by Garmin, the G5 will interface with the listed autopilots only in a lateral mode - HDG or GPSS. It does not appear to have the ability to control a vertical mode - VS, ALT HOLD, FLC, IAS,etc. nor does it appear to be able to support coupled approaches with a glideslope.

I can't see replacing a KI256 with a G5 and lose significant functionality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skycobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 9:37pm
Are you sure?  The Stec-60 is strictly a pitch stabilization unit.....no lateral inputs required.   It does provide Alt hold, Vertical Speed, and Glide Slope capture.   

I will be more that happy to dump all my gimbals, bearing, and mechanical gyro's in favor of todays solid state units as I think many more will be making the shift.  

I look forward to a healthy competitive environment that gives us the best in technology especially around cost effective autopilots even if it's the big G pushing the envelope. 
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 11:16pm
How many GA airplanes have autopilots that can fly the vertical part of an approach?   Ok.  Now how many of those autopilots are under 40 years old?  How many work?  

For the rest of us...  Getting an electric attitude indicator (I'll keep my vacuum as a backup, thank you), an HSI, that will interface with our autopilots and legally fit in the panel for $4500 plus install is a bargain.  Heck the STEC GPSS module costs almost half that.   Heck Garmin wants almost half that to service my GI-106 that is acting up again.  

I don't mean to sound argumentative, but they are going to sell tons of G5s. 

Ken

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2017 at 2:26am
Avidyne, please hear us and see that the G5 is and will continue to grow greatly in popularity.  You really need to push to get the IFD units compatible (and legally compatible) with the G5s. If not, I will begin to regret choosing Avidyne over Garmin for my new IFR GPS unit that is currently being installed.  It's too late to change for me but others will continue to have a choice and the G5 will play a major role...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2017 at 8:34am
Originally posted by Flying_Monkey Flying_Monkey wrote:

Avidyne, please hear us and see that the G5 is and will continue to grow greatly in popularity.  You really need to push to get the IFD units compatible (and legally compatible) with the G5s. If not, I will begin to regret choosing Avidyne over Garmin for my new IFR GPS unit that is currently being installed.  It's too late to change for me but others will continue to have a choice and the G5 will play a major role...

Who knows? Maybe Avidyne has an Oshkosh announcement for something better than the G5?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2017 at 9:34am
No G5 competitor announcement from us. We will be looking at integrating with the G5 in the next software release. It appears that they use a similar protocol to the G500/600 that we already support so in theory, it should be straight forward.
Simpson Bennett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comancheguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2017 at 12:51pm
Great news!   Well done! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 2:28pm
I spoke with an Avidyne rep at Oshkosh last week & he said the G5 should be certified to work with the IFD540/550s in October, or whenever the next release of the operating system comes out.

That would be great so I can stop throwing money at my still non-functioning King HSI :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 2:28pm
I have an IFD 550 and just getting ready to put in a G5 I got at oshkosh.  What's wrong with sending the GPS RS232 info from pin #56 into the G5?
JWJ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmozur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2017 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by bcool bcool wrote:

I spoke with an Avidyne rep at Oshkosh last week & he said the G5 should be certified to work with the IFD540/550s in October, or whenever the next release of the operating system comes out.

That would be great so I can stop throwing money at my still non-functioning King HSI :)


AviSimpson, is this in the works for the upcoming release?  

Matt  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 9:01am
Originally posted by mmozur mmozur wrote:

AviSimpson, is this in the works for the upcoming release?  

Matt  

That is the current plan. We just received the G5 so until we can get a few test cycles on it, we won't know if that plan will hold true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmozur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 10:16am
That's great news - thanks!

I'll keep my fingers crossed :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stiletto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Originally posted by mmozur mmozur wrote:

AviSimpson, is this in the works for the upcoming release?  

Matt  

That is the current plan. We just received the G5 so until we can get a few test cycles on it, we won't know if that plan will hold true.

In planning upgrades to my own panel, this subject raises a question I have regarding STC's.

If one component does not list another as an approved interface, IE: the G5 STC does not list the IFD as an approved GPS source, would such an installation be "legal" if the IFD STC does include an interface to the G5? 

C310C
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2017 at 9:53am
Some STCs include wording to the effect that it is up to the A&P/IA doing the installation to ensure that the STC does not interfere with any other installed STC.

The textbook example would be an STC that installs high compression cylinders with an STC that installs a high-flow exhaust system.  Either one by itself is approved and tested, but the combination of the two was never put through a certification test.  An engine with both upgrades could potentially exceed the cooling system's capabilities (or push up against some other operational boundary).

Naturally, electronics are a bit different, but the certification process is optimized for mechanical things, not for electronics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Originally posted by mmozur mmozur wrote:

AviSimpson, is this in the works for the upcoming release?  

Matt  

That is the current plan. We just received the G5 so until we can get a few test cycles on it, we won't know if that plan will hold true.

Any progress on this.  A few of us are in a position to pull the trigger on G5s but holding off until 100% sure we can legally use with the 540.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M20Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 9:22pm
I had this same issue when my standby attitude indicator failed.  Since the GarMonster was not interested in working with Avidyne I chose to go with Sandia.  It's a solid unit that does not require any GPS interface so there's no issue with compatibility.  Of course, the Sandia doesn't do any nav functions, so it that's what you need then this is not a viable solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

No G5 competitor announcement from us. We will be looking at integrating with the G5 in the next software release. It appears that they use a similar protocol to the G500/600 that we already support so in theory, it should be straight forward.


Avidyne didn't have an announcement for a G5 competitor, but Dynon sure did! And Dynon prefers Avidyne navigators. Witness how many IFD5x0 are in their promotional photos!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2017 at 8:54am
I'd go Sandia or Dynon, or if you need nav indications and don't mind spending a bit more, the L3.

I have a Sandia Quattro, and it is a solid performer. The other big advantage to the Sandia & L3 is that ALL of their indications are certified, AI, ASI, Alt, VS etc. Only the AI is a certified indication on the Garmin & Dynon.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 06 Sep 2017 at 9:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Originally posted by mmozur mmozur wrote:

AviSimpson, is this in the works for the upcoming release?  

Matt  

That is the current plan. We just received the G5 so until we can get a few test cycles on it, we won't know if that plan will hold true.

Any update on if this will be in the upcoming release and when that might be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 10:54pm
Avidyne is shutdown until next week some time. (Irma)

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 08 Sep 2017 at 11:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2017 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Flying_Monkey Flying_Monkey wrote:

Any update on if this will be in the upcoming release and when that might be?
No updates to share on this. Initial indications look promising to support it in an upcoming release.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Originally posted by Flying_Monkey Flying_Monkey wrote:

Any update on if this will be in the upcoming release and when that might be?
No updates to share on this. Initial indications look promising to support it in an upcoming release.

Thanks for the reply. Will you please let us know if/when you have an estimated date as to when we could expect the G5 to be supported?  It will help a few of us make decisions.
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