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Vectors To Final

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SB Jim View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 11:48am
I did an IPC yesterday which went well. However, it highlighted an ongoing frustration I have with the VTF function.

On both my IFD 540 and CNX 80 activating VTF makes many (most?) of the fixes disappear which is problematic.

My CFII tells me that other units now will allow one to activate VTF but the various fixes remain (which is most helpful).

Can that be changed on the IFD?

Because the bulk of my flying is done in a radar environment I rarely fly a procedure as published. 99% of the time we're getting radar vectors.

I've gone to a standard procedure of loading the full approach in both boxes, but extensive vectoring has confused the logic in both boxes on more than one occasion.

I understand the fly leg option as well, but I really don't understand why VTF feature can't leave the other fixes in place and allow us to join the approach where ATC places us. This really begs to be fixed.

???

Jim
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Ibraham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:49pm
We have both the IFD 440 and Garmin GNS 430, on both units (I believe most others), when you activate VTF, the unit will only display a magenta line to the FAF, all the fixes prior to the FAF will disappear.  
Even when being vectored, it is better to load the full approach for situational awareness especially when you have altitude restricted step down fixes.  Once given a heading to intercept the final approach course, then activate the leg to the FAF and intercept it.
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Flying_Monkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 1:08am
It's annoying for sure and that's why I use activate leg exclusively on the 430W.  Gonna be the same drill on the 540
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oskrypuch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 9:28am
It is a little different with the IFDs, than the Garmins. You can see both the flight plan and the map at the same time, and it is very quick to swap active procedures and/or active legs/waypoints, you don't have to drill down into menus.

Personally, if I am expecting VTF on an ILS, that is what I will load. If that is changed, it is only a few keystrokes to amend. I prefer to have on the screen precisely what I'm cleared for, or expected to be cleared for. 

But I can certainly see the general benefit of loading a full approach and activating a given leg for VTF. Certainly that is what I always did on the old GNS.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 13 Sep 2017 at 9:30am
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SB Jim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 12:30pm
I understand the Fly Leg procedure.

Honestly it's simply extra work for the PIC that really shouldn't be required.

I can see no viable reason for the VTF feature to disable all fixes on the extended final approach course.

I can provide numerous real world examples involving vectoring back and forth over the approach course that have given my IFD 540 fits. It's as if those who devised the VTF logic in these boxes haven't been vectored back and forth over final 2 or 3 times on the same approach. Out here it happens.

Sometimes it's easier to simply "dumb down" the box and go into ILS mode and fly it the old fashioned way. ATC treats many approaches that way.

I dislike losing those fixes.

I dislike having to reprogram the box to Fly Leg when I'm being given multiple heading and altitude changes.

Can I do it? Of course.

Seems like we can make a smarter box, though. That's my request.

I understand that as pilots we can do extra work to make up for shortcomings in box programming. Why should we have to do that?
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MysticCobra View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 6:33am
I'm having trouble envisioning the implementation of your request.  Are you proposing that VTF behave just like loading an approach from an IAF...except that VTF includes all possible IAFs and subsequent fixes instead of just picking one IAF?  

I'm trying to understand what you're asking for that's different from loading an approach and using the activate leg option, and what in your request would save you the "extra work for the PIC that really shouldn't be required" when using the existing load-an-approach-and-fly-leg capability.

Seems like no matter what, the box isn't going to automatically understand the vectors ATC is giving you, so either you're going to be deviating from what's loaded in the box or having to go push buttons to update it to match ATC's latest vectors.  That's where I'm not following you.


Edited by MysticCobra - 15 Sep 2017 at 6:38am
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