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brou0040 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Software Portal
    Posted: 17 May 2019 at 11:29am
I know Avidyne is working on a way to make getting software updates distributed to users and I'd like to make a recommendation.  I understand you want to have a bit more verification that the person receiving the software has logbook signature authority and this is at least partially in an attempt to prevent every owner from calling tech support and overwhelming them.  Instead of doing email/phone interaction for each update and having to do the shared dropbox folder each time, could you create a new portal that you allow an account into based on the same criteria you are using to dropbox software to people?  This way it would be a one-time verification to get an account and new software could be loaded there without repeating the process next time.  You could also use that portal to upload the paperwork once the update is finished.  I don't know how your dealer portal works, but it seems like it could be similar with only the content you want logbook authorities to have access to.  You could even link it with myAvidyne if you wanted to track things better.

Having a consistent process would be beneficial on the user side and it seems like it would be better on your end as well rather than managing dropbox shares.  Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 10:05am
This is a great idea. Avionics shops are overwhelmed these days and it is a whole lot to ask of them to babysit a download. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 3:39pm
My understanding is that the GPS Rollover Patch process was a test run for the new process. If so, that will be quick and painless. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jessesaint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 8:59am
For those who think this is a simple thing, I want to add another experience from Friday. I had a guy fly in with his 206 for the software upgrade. Should have taken 45-75 minutes. Turns out one of his SD cards in the 540 failed the update (not user error), causing a bricked unit. After 2-3 more hours of a complete reflash of his unit, it still failed. Fortunately I had a 540 on the bench with good as cards that was on its way back to Avidyne anyway. I swapped the cards, updated and got him on his way. The whole process took 4 hours st least, and the unit would have not flown away if it wasn’t for the other unit I had. Don’t let the 3rd decimal update fool you. This is a hard core update. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 9:35am
Thanks Jessesaint for posting the experience. I must say that I have some sympathy with Avidyne on updates. They are a bit between a rock and a hard place.

Many seem to think updates are a slam-dunk change that can be done by anyone, and complain loud and clear because they need to spend the money to fly to and pay and avionics shop to do it... and blame Avidyne for not making it easier (read: cheaper).

Many others or perhaps even the same, would be the first to rant and rave against Avidyne when an update bricked a box and it needed to be sent back to Avidyne for a $1000 fix plus shipping. Avidyne has surely received tens or hundreds of bricked units, many of which (but not all) were due to operator errors during an update. Going through a dealer puts the discussion between the dealer and Avidyne if something goes wrong and removes the customer's financial risk.

These are very sophisticated pieces of computer electronics, with elements sensitive to various error and failure modes arising during reconfiguration.


Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 11:00am
+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 6:53pm
Well said, Vince.  I don't work for Avidyne but my B.P. goes up reading some of the crazy complaints people have around the ability to do these installs themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 10:42am
Originally posted by teeth6 teeth6 wrote:

Well said, Vince.  I don't work for Avidyne but my B.P. goes up reading some of the crazy complaints people have around the ability to do these installs themselves.

My opinion regarding this whole owner assisted update might be different if I had different experiences with dealers.  Maybe your opinion would change when you've had multiple units burnt by the dealer and realize that these updates are more along the lines of computer tasks than of a A&P task.  The cost of the fuel is real, but it is s small part of the cost, it's the cost of taking a day off of work for them to burn/brick it and another to go back to get the new one reinstalled.  Like the population of pilots these days, our A&P, IAs, etc are getting older and many are happily not tech savvy.  Many of them are mechanics because they wanted to swing a wrench instead of sit in front of a computer.  I had to watch a dealer struggle to figure out how to zip a file to send it to tech support - I'm not sure they ever figured it out.  Nothing against them for not wanting to work on computers all day, but it's an argument for trying to help out with this under owner assistance.

Nobody said something has to be simple for it to be allowed under owner assisted maintenance.  I wonder if those complaining against owner assisted maintenance have actually done much work under an IA.  I've worked under my IA for the last 10 years and I'm currently replacing my engine under my IAs supervision, I'd say that is a bit more involved than the Avidyne updates I've done in the past.

The hardest part of this update will likely be getting the file from Avidyne onto a USB stick, nothing to do with the actual update.  The 2 reports I've heard to date about someone bricking a unit was from someone with the certs for the upgrade, not from owners - I'm sure there are others so I don't believe that is the whole story.

That being said, I understand that Avidyne needs to do what they need to do, and you don't have to assist your mechanic with the update if you don't feel comfortable, but I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to work to find something that works for everybody.  I think the portal with a consistent process for people approved for an account by Avidyne to get updates without having to cycle through this each time would help everybody.


Edited by brou0040 - 20 May 2019 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MysticCobra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

My opinion regarding this whole owner assisted update might be different if I had different experiences with dealers.  Maybe your opinion would change when you've had multiple units burnt by the dealer and realize that these updates are more along the lines of computer tasks than of a A&P task. 
In your first sentence, you say "Dealer", but in your second, you say "A&P", and you go on to talk about A&Ps who are not tech-savvy.

I think most people on this forum mean "Avidyne dealer" or more generically "avionics shop" when they say "dealer"--folks who work with avionics day-in, day-out.  These are the folks who are more likely to have "been there, done that" when it comes to major software upgrades.

Yes, there are many A&Ps who are not interested in avionics technology.  I would never fly my plane to have someone like that do a software upgrade for me.  I'm pretty sure that no one here is suggesting that as a good option.


Edited by MysticCobra - 20 May 2019 at 2:16pm
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brou0040 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 2:59pm
I tried keeping dealer vs a&p/ia straight in my references regarding my experiences. My bad experiences have been with dealers. Another was an Avidyne dealer, but I was doing a non-Avidyne audio panel, but the work quality is applicable. My a&p/ia experiences are that they don’t want to deal with the computer work, but at least they said as much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 4:27pm
For me, the issue is time. To get to a good avionics dealer with the time to install my upgrade means an hour flight each way, plus the time to wait for them to get to my plane with whatever service I need. If the plane has to stay at the dealership, then I need some way to get back home, and another arrangement to pick up the plane at the end. It is much easier to just do the upgrade myself. Sure, there may be a hardware failure - a dead SD Card is not the fault of the upgrade or installer.

Now that the new mechanism to get the firmware is out, it confirms that Avidyne wants to make sure whoever downloads the update is fully aware that they recommend a dealer installation and that any issues with an A&P/owner installation are up to the owner to deal with. They also make clear that an A&P sign-off is required, just like it has always been required for the last 3 upgrades I've been involved with.

Avidyne did a good job with the video that explains the installation process, and points out some areas where one might run into problems if not careful to follow directions. I am willing to try another upgrade on my own, but I am fully aware of the consequences of making a mistake and can live with them. 

I can see how it is possible to get into trouble fairly easily. There is a lot of variation between different installations and some may be more troublesome than others. There is no right or wrong way to go about this. Use a dealer, or install yourself. Just be aware of the pitfalls and be ready to own up to any issues you cause. Don't blame Avidyne if something goes wrong. I think they have a great product and I appreciate their willingness to work with owners directly. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 8:55pm
I am getting files with 5/10/2019 12:32PM dates and times, but the file sizes do not match from the zip files, to the drive files.  
I have downloaded them two different ways.
One, as an all zip files, and two, as individual files downloaded to my computer.
The CRC32 codes are only found on the zip files, (WINRAR), and the file sizes are different here as well.
Is there anyway that Avidyne can list the CRC codes, for a file size check?
If I am going to "brick" these units, I want there to be no question that I did everthing possible to provide the correct files to the units.
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Randy
If I could figure out how to upload a picture, I would do that.
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Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 1:08pm
I applaud Avidyne for making this portal available for the dissemination of IFD 4xx and 5xx software update packages. This places the responsibility for maintaining the software updates with the person who is also responsible for maintenance of the rest of the aircraft - the owner/operator. Hopefully other vendors will follow this lead. 

The one thing that will further improve this process is to make announcement directly to registered owners of available updates. It isn't right that we users should learn of these releases in an untimely manner by hearsay or forum postings. Dealers, in my experience with several locations and several vendors (I fly many aircraft as a living), cannot be relied upon to know of or inform us of software updates. Although I have repeatedly set my choices on this forum to receive notification of new postings and of responses to my postings, these settings have not worked correctly for several years. Either I receive emails for a few days, or I receive nothing. Thus my request for a notification directly from Avidyne to all registered device owners.


Edited by compasst - 21 May 2019 at 5:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Randy Randy wrote:

..Is there anyway that Avidyne can list the CRC codes, for a file size check?..

Just using Windows directory sizes...
GoldMaster.dsf is 82,558 KB
FULL UPDATE.dsf is 43,938 KB
CONFORMITY CHECKER.dsf is 1 KB
RUNONCE is 1 KB



Edited by AviSteve - 21 May 2019 at 4:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 4:53pm
Well, that makes my question even more important.
I get:

      name                                                                  size                       packed               modified                          

500-00205-000 Goldmaster.dsf                             84,538,856             83,858,409         5/10/2019 12:32PM      
500-00206-000 Full Update.dsf                             44,991,985             44,196,492         5/10/2019 12:33PM      
500-00207-000 Conformity Checker                                  584                         320        5/10/2019 12:32PM      
Runonce                                                                                15                          17         5/10/2019 12:32PM     

This from WinRar
 

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Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HenryM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 5:22pm
[Removed extra text] My numbers on Windows are the same as Steve's.

Randy,

I have my files in a cloud drive and can look at the exact same file from both Windows and macOS. 

When I look at them with Windows, the sizes reported are what AviSteve posted above. 

When I get the size information on my MacBook Pro, the sizes reported are exactly what you posted. Thus, it appears to me that the size reported is dependent on the directory utility used. My MacBook seems to agree with your WinRar, but Windows uses a different calculation. 


Edited by HenryM - 21 May 2019 at 6:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 5:29pm
I initially posted with a typo "49" vs "43".  I corrected it like 2 seconds after I posted, but you guys are fast!

Sorry to muddy the waters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avimyers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 6:00pm
Please make sure that you are in our user database. By registering for the most current software update at https://lz314.infusionsoft.com/app/form/10231 you will get all software notifications. We have not sent email notification out yet on this. We also post in our Facebook Group called Avidyne Pilots Club. Please join from our Facebook page if you have not done so as of yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 7:47pm
Thank you Henry, and Steve.
I guess these files are good to go then.
Regards,
Randy
Regards,
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by avimyers avimyers wrote:

Please make sure that you are in our user database. By registering for the most current software update at https://lz314.infusionsoft.com/app/form/10231 you will get all software notifications. We have not sent email notification out yet on this. We also post in our Facebook Group called Avidyne Pilots Club. Please join from our Facebook page if you have not done so as of yet.

Some of your Avidyne customers do not use Facebook for security and privacy reasons.  I hope Avidyne will make sure that any information intended for Avidyne customers posted to Facebook is also posted to this forum.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 6:41pm
@AviSteve: an MD5 or SHA1 hash would be much better than the number of kilobytes. I.e.:
$> md5sum *
190973e7175ea93fe79e68c13537ddf5  500-00205-000 GoldMaster.dsf
0dc98d7c4a7a904765f1ea8483f68487  500-00206-000 FULL UPDATE.dsf
a0751ee0c11cab6992465bf05d17f007  500-00207-000 CONFORMITY CHECKER.dsf
6d8ae0533f18b5af4e7184d6d230eb4d  601-00182-034 SERVICE BULLETIN, IFD5XX-4XX SERIES UPGRADE TO 10.2.3.1.pdf
17b89e61f6a50a069424e47ee6dbc5f2  RUNONCE
If you wouldn't mind confirming...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 7:12pm
Or for those unable to run *nix, Cygwin, nor MinGW, in PowerShell:


PS F:\> certutil -hashfile '.\500-00205-000 GoldMaster.dsf' MD5
MD5 hash of file .\500-00205-000 GoldMaster.dsf:
19 09 73 e7 17 5e a9 3f e7 9e 68 c1 35 37 dd f5
CertUtil: -hashfile command completed successfully.
PS F:\> certutil -hashfile '.\500-00206-000 FULL UPDATE.dsf' MD5
MD5 hash of file .\500-00206-000 FULL UPDATE.dsf:
0d c9 8d 7c 4a 7a 90 47 65 f1 ea 84 83 f6 84 87
CertUtil: -hashfile command completed successfully.
PS F:\> certutil -hashfile '.\500-00207-000 CONFORMITY CHECKER.dsf' MD5
MD5 hash of file .\500-00207-000 CONFORMITY CHECKER.dsf:
a0 75 1e e0 c1 1c ab 69 92 46 5b f0 5d 17 f0 07
CertUtil: -hashfile command completed successfully.
PS F:\> certutil -hashfile .\RUNONCE MD5
MD5 hash of file .\RUNONCE:
17 b8 9e 61 f6 a5 0a 06 94 24 e4 7e e6 db c5 f2
CertUtil: -hashfile command completed successfully.
PS F:\>

TIP: If the first 4 and last 4 digits/characters match, you have a match


Edited by skitheo - 25 May 2019 at 7:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by Randy Randy wrote:

Well, that makes my question even more important.
I get:

      name                                                                  size                       packed               modified                          

500-00205-000 Goldmaster.dsf                             84,538,856             83,858,409         5/10/2019 12:32PM      
500-00206-000 Full Update.dsf                             44,991,985             44,196,492         5/10/2019 12:33PM      
500-00207-000 Conformity Checker                                  584                         320        5/10/2019 12:32PM      
Runonce                                                                                15                          17         5/10/2019 12:32PM     

This from WinRar
 

Randy,
The problem is that AviSteve used KB, you used Bytes. 1KB = 1024 Bytes.

All the more reason to use hashes rather than sizes.


Edited by skitheo - 25 May 2019 at 7:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CubedRoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2019 at 11:38am
Ah yes. The old Kilobytes vs Kibibytes dilemma.  It also comes down to the OS and it's filesystem and how it displays file sizes.  Some will display a file size in Kibibyes as it should be, and others will use Kilobytes.   Then of course we have KB vs Kb.  With thewhole bits vs bytes issue. Hah.

I agree. A hash is really the only proper way to confirm file integrity. 


Edited by CubedRoot - 26 May 2019 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2019 at 6:41pm
I can confirm that the above posted MD5 values represent a successful upgrade from 10.2.0.0.A, which took 50 minutes to run. Another hour of prep and 20 minutes to check config and set up WiFi. Thanks for the A&P assisted owner install option, Avidyne!
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