Avidyne Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Avidyne General > IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Has Jepp removed DME Arc IAP's from navdata?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Has Jepp removed DME Arc IAP's from navdata?
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
chflyer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Location: LSZK
Status: Offline
Points: 1022 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Has Jepp removed DME Arc IAP's from navdata?
    Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 8:58am
Approaches with DME Arcs are becoming rather rare since so many RNP approaches are available.

There have been discussions about them in this forum in the past and the IFD PG for 10.3 still says on page 6-26 that DME arc legs and approaches are supported.

However, it seems that these are no longer being coded by Jepp in navdata. At least it is not coded for EGBJ ILS DME R27.

Are they still coded by Jepp in the US? Are Jepp removing them to save navdata space?
Vince
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 2153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 9:11am
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

Approaches with DME Arcs are becoming rather rare since so many RNP approaches are available.

There have been discussions about them in this forum in the past and the IFD PG for 10.3 still says on page 6-26 that DME arc legs and approaches are supported.

However, it seems that these are no longer being coded by Jepp in navdata. At least it is not coded for EGBJ ILS DME R27.

Are they still coded by Jepp in the US? Are Jepp removing them to save navdata space?
Jeppesen isn't removing them to save space.  If the approach is no longer in the database, it's usually because the state decomissioned the approach.  There are plenty of DME arcs still in the database, including several in the same area as EGBJ (EGDM ILS23-Y, for example).
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
chflyer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Location: LSZK
Status: Offline
Points: 1022 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 9:54am
Thanks Steve. I don't have any IAPs for EGDM in my Jepp coverage but I do see it in the IFD navdata. Might it be a military airfield and not in the standard coverage?

What would be the explanation then for this? It is the current chart for cycle 2301. How can it be published by Jepp on the chart in the current cycle yet decommissioned and not in the database?

There are two IAFs leading into the DME arc, one northeast and one southeast. So I would expect an approach to be listed for each. Instead, there are only 3: for IAF D084K on the final track and GST1 and GST2 for the two teardrops.

What should be set up in the IFD if ATC clears for the DME arc approach via the northeast IAF at D10.0 IGOS 2400? Select vectors and then manually switch to VLOC and manually track the raw DME? There won't be any magenta line or guidance for the a/p from the IFD.




Edited by chflyer - 08 Feb 2023 at 9:59am
Vince
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 2153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 10:04pm
I looked back through several old cycles and found no instances where DME arc transitions on that approach were published.  There must be a reason that those transitions cannot be coded.  I'll check with Jepp to find out why.
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
AviSteve View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Location: Melbourne, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 2153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 7:42am
Here's the response from Jeppesen.

For this approach the published ARC legs (AF - Arc to a fix) are not codable according to the ARINC424 coding specification. According to this document the AF path terminator requires a VORDME navaid as recommended navaid. The ARC transitions in the published EGBJ I27 approach are based on ILS DME (not VOR DME), therefore the Arc transitions are not coded in the database. 
Steve Lindsley
Avidyne Engineering
Back to Top
chflyer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Location: LSZK
Status: Offline
Points: 1022 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 8:40am
Thanks for the quick help and reply Steve.

So probably the best way to fly this approach if cleared for the DME arc via one of the two transitions would be to load the D084K approach option, which is in the database, and then fly the arc using VLOC and the "raw" ILS/DME signals. I wonder if any a/p would support that given that it wouldn't match the GPS guidance.


Edited by chflyer - 10 Feb 2023 at 8:51am
Vince
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.