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Transponder comparison

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Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Transponder comparison
    Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 1:52pm
EAA recently included a list of Mode S extended squitter transponders on the AirVenture site:

http://www.airventure.org/news/2013/130731_transponder-tech-getting-to-2020.html

It shows four panel mount transponders:  The Avidyne AXP340, the Bendix/King KT 74, the Garmin GTX 330, and the Trig TT31.

The AXP340 is the most expensive at about $6K retail.  The least expensive KT 74 is about half that - less in my case because I have a KT 76C that I could trade in.

What does the Avidyne transponder do that the King doesn't which makes it cost so much more?

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TogaDriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 10:53am
I would also like to get a response to this question.  Even Garmin's 330ES is now $4100 online and it is a solid unit (I have one).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twalterhome3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 1:50pm
The Avidyne transponder _IS_ the trig transponder
it's just in a different box AFAIK.

Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 2:25pm
Hi Tim,

I've heard the same thing but have had no confirmation of that from Avidyne.  I assume you're thinking of the TT31.

See you at KDVO...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 4:36pm
Close but not quite.   

The AXP340 transponder can be thought of as having a front end and a back end.

We worked with Trig who altered the TT31 per our design change requests to become the back end of the AXP340.  The front end is the control head and the interfaces to the back end.  That part was an Avidyne design.   

Have you taken a look at the plug and play table I put in the back of the AXP340 pilot guide?  That was meant to also highlight some feature/functionality differences between the 340 and the units that it could mechanically replace.   Not a complete answer to your comparison question but probably a decent place to start.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2013 at 6:49pm
The guide that is posted at www.avidyne.com/support/downloads/xpdr.asp only mentions the KT-76 series under Plug and Play on page 15.  Is there a newer version?

Does your comment indicate the control head can be mounted in shallow installations and the remote (like the TT-2x series) can go elsewhere?  That could be handy.

Will there be new retail pricing on the 340 before you release it?  It's kind of spendy right now for what it does.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2014 at 11:55am
I'm getting ready for my IFD-540 installation, and I plan on replacing my KT-78A with an ADS-B out digital transponder.  I was thinking of going with the Avidyne, but my avionics guy suggested the Trig TT31 to save some serious bucks.  I prefer the pushbutton interface of the Avidyne, but not for $1600 more.  It looks like the King unit (KT-74) has a nice pushbutton interface and is priced about the same as the Trig.  Based on all the scuttlebutt, I assume all three units have the same basic hardware (Trig hardware), with different user interfaces.

So, here are a few questions:

1. Will I be losing any functionality by going with the King unit?  
2. My understanding is that all ADS-B implementations must be done under an STC to be compliant. Is this correct?
3. If #2 is true, then will an STC be issued to cover the IFD-540 as a position source for the KT-74?

I asked the Avidyne guys at Oshkosh if there would be any discounts for bundling and IFD-540, AMP-240 and AXP-340, and was told NO, and NO show specials, either.  I just can't see paying the premiums to have a matchy-match stack, but I don't want to get held hostage with a system that won't be able to be compliant because vendors won't play together nicely.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2014 at 4:57pm
In our case we're planning to replace a KT 76C which has buttons.  My wife is used to that and has no interest in the TT-31 interface no matter how much cheaper it is.

As far as I can tell the differences between the AXP 340 and the KT 74 are:
  • The AXP 340 has "8" and "9" buttons.  The KT 74 doesn't.
  • The AXP 340 uses a rotary encoder for the knob and shows the setting on the display.  The KT 74 uses a four position switch and shows position with a pointer.
  • The AXP 340 has a green readout.  The KT 74 has a blue readout.
I don't think we have a use for the "8" or "9" buttons.  The switch versus encoder looks like a non-issue in our case since we wouldn't normally use the extra capabilities the encoder provides.  And having the color match the IFD 540 status LEDs doesn't matter much because the COM/NAV 2 radio will be between the IFD and the transponder.  It is a KX 155a which has an orange gas tube display.

Maybe there are some other differences I've missed that someone will point out.

Looking at some of the bigger dealers on the web the KT 74 street price is about $1000 less than the AXP 340.  And Bendix/King is offering a $750 trade-in for our old transponder.

At Oshkosh a Bendix/King rep said that they expect an STC for the KT 74 with the IFD 540 late this year (2014).    Experience teaches us that STC dates aren't always met.  And I don't know if a FSDO would sign off on the combination without the STC.

We're not willing to delay the installation of the IFD 540 to wait for Bendix/King to get an STC.  So if the AXP 340 is the only choice at the time we'll certainly install one.  Otherwise we might go with the less expensive alternative.  This is already a very expensive panel upgrade for a Cessna 172.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2014 at 7:36pm
Paul is essentially correct.

I will say however that I know nothing about this supposed STC for the IFD540-KT74 combo (and I would if there were anything going on on that front).
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2014 at 7:38pm
Between the TT31 and AXP340, it is no contest for me.  The user interface (UI) of the TT31 is absolutely not for me.  I flew with it for many months until the AXP340 was available and cursed at it every time.  The actual box is perfectly fine for the TT31.  The UI is not fine for the TT31.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 2:25am
I agree with Steve that the TT31 interface is lacking, so a couple of the options I see are the Avidyne unit or the King unit.  I'm strongly leaning toward the King unit.  I didn't realize they might offer a trade-in.  That makes it even more attractive!  I've got to believe that the IFD-540 can be used as a position source, but the lack of the STC is the only issue.  I pinged King on the subject a few days ago, and here is the response:

Thank you for contacting BendixKing by Honeywell!

Paul,

Your inquiry about the Avidyne IFD-540 was well received within Bendix King. I was notified that we will review it and see if we can add it as a certified source. I don't know what the timing of that will be but you could check back with us at your leisure.

Thanks,

Robert (Bob) Zane
BendixKing Technical Support

The lack of a bundle discount is disappointing, and there is just way too much of a premium on the A-brand xpndr (UNLESS THEY CAN TELL ME SOME SPECIFIC ADVANTAGES).  If I get nervous about the lack of an STC on the King unit I may just forgo the xnpdr altogether and go with the Freeflight ADS-B solution, or maybe I'll just put it off for a couple of years. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 4:21am
What is the source of the $6k price quoted above? I just downloaded the price list from the Avidyne web site and it shows a price of $3'995 plus $200 for the tray & connectors, if needed. Antenna not included.

Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 12:58pm
pburger,

The KT 78A isn't one of the transponders with a trade-in from Honeywell, at least according to the list on their website.  You can probably sell it used for more than they would have given you for it anyhow.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2014 at 3:13pm
Paul,

Thanks for that info.  I hadn't looked closely at that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Jet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2015 at 2:57pm
is Avidyne going to have a competing product to the L3 NGT9000 series? Would be nice to have the complete ADS-B In & Out capabilities of the AXP340 and MLB100 in one box with an additional uncluttered traffic/wx display that would use my 540s position source.

Edited by Joe Jet - 20 Feb 2015 at 12:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2015 at 4:06pm
That's the plan but there is no timeframe determined/announced for that kind of thing.
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Jet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 12:31am
The G guys released that 345 and got the txpdr and 1090 out, 1090/978 in, no waas right, but left out a nice big display on the txpdr. Hopefully Avidyne comes up with something brilliant.
A36 w/IFD 540, PA60 w/IFD 540
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 210 Driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2016 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Joe Jet Joe Jet wrote:

The G guys released that 345 and got the txpdr and 1090 out, 1090/978 in, no waas right, but left out a nice big display on the txpdr. Hopefully Avidyne comes up with something brilliant.



+1 !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2016 at 8:55am
The 322 remote transponder is such a nice small unit, there should indeed be a lot of room in a transponder sized box for all the electronics needed.

I have to say that a 1090ES transponder with 1090/978 IN included, at an approachable price, is a dynamite combination from a sales point of view.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 17 Feb 2016 at 8:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1964-m20e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2016 at 8:35pm
I just had the 322 installed with the 540 it is a nice package.  I needed the XPNDR moved to allow space in the stack for the 540.

The 322 is more expensive than the 340 but in my case to have the larger 540 screen worth it.

I'm still getting use to the remote XPNDR idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 3:02pm

An Avidyne "345" clone, with ADS-B in/out would be my ideal solution for ADS-B.

Jake, any chance of seing that in the next future?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote molokaisteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2017 at 12:30pm
Are there any issues with installing the Garmin GTX345 transponder with the IFD540 and getting ADSB in and out? 
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2017 at 4:32pm
I understand that the Garmin 245 requires IFD540 software Ver. 10.2 to work.  Obviously, someone has to be the one who actually determines if it will work, and we are still waiting, with baited breath, for Ver. 10.2 to be released, some 11 months after it was announced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2017 at 4:54pm
Oops.  Should have said Garmin 345.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote molokaisteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 11:26am
Why is the new software revision 10.2 needed?
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 11:39am
Don't know the specifics, but if you look at point 5. of their latest communique on 10.2 dated 3/3/17 at:

https://techsupport.avidyne.com/portal/helpcenter/articles/ifd-software-10-2-0-features

you will see that they have added the ability to communicate with the GTX 335/345, which implies that the ability was previously unavailable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 9:52am
Correct, as of 10.2 the GTX345 will communicate ADS-B weather and traffic to the IFDs. It will also be a compliant ADS-B Out transponder using the IFD as the position source.
Simpson Bennett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 11:44am
AviSimpson, what is being said about the STC for Avidyne-->330ES and 345, et al?   In the works?
In the meantime, and before 2020 we think it's OK just to turn it on and use it?   At SIL 3?    

BH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 11:52am
It is included in the 10.2 STC so it is a legal combination as of 10.2. The IFDs are a legal ADS-B position source for GTX330ES, 345 and 335 (as well as the previously STC'd transponders).
Simpson Bennett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gsxrpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:13pm
I'm having the 322 installed right now to go with my 540. Clean up the panel and move the weight to the tail, no brainer.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 10:40pm
AviSimpson, that is great news.   How do I cite the STC in my 337?
BH
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