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New MLB100 978 MHz ADS-B In Receiver |
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oskrypuch 
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 Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 12:02pm |
Yes, we have to hunt them down. ;-) The Pattern at small uncontrolled fields on a blue sky day can be scary. * Orest |
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SB Jim
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 11:31am |
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Agreed, active traffic is the best, but I'd rather save that money.
Still, it won't catch them all either. Plenty of airplanes still flying without an electrical system or a transponder. Regards, Jim |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 10:56am |
Agreed, that is what I did, but that is pricey. And actually, the TAS605A will pick up the TIS-R (978, 1090 & Mode C traffic) on 1090. You only need to add 978 if you don't have satellite weather and want FIS-B weather. * Orest |
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ddgates
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:57am |
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Jim:
Just my opinion - I think the best solution is a traffic system like the TAS605A which will have 1090 in. Then all you need is 978 in to catch FIS-B and the TIS rebroadcast. If you don't have 1090 traffic then I think the dual frequency box is the best solution. Best. David
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David Gates
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SB Jim
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:57am |
Hi Tom, I didn't give up my CNX 80 (aka GNS 480). It simply became GPS/Nav/Com #2 and my '76 vintage Collins Nav/Com, ADF and 90's vintage KN 64 DME were removed. I agree that the 540 is like a 480 on steroids, we are very pleased with it so far. |
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SB Jim
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:42am |
Thanks, Jake. Sounds good to me. I am very interested in your product to make sure the integration works well. Plus I can let my bank account recuperate a bit. Separately, would there be any benefit to having this particular box be a dual band receiver? (1090 and 978) I suppose it could pick up some traffic when outside the ADS-B broadcast area. I have noticed that my current setup doesn't pick up targets until I'm up in the air a bit (above pattern altitude). Regards, Jim |
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ddgates
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:39am |
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Understandably, those who have bought these boxes want all the functionality and gee-whiz factor obtainable.
I think Avidyne is trying to deliver this as expeditiously as they can, given that they carry a 100-stone (FAA) weight on their back, and are probably limited in coding staff. It is in Avidyne's best interest competitively to bring innovation to the marketplace as quickly as possible, and it is pretty obvious to me that Avidyne is trying to deliver on that. It has been a long slog, though, in the Avionics marketplace in general with all the "coming soon..." announcements that has become the modus operandi for this market segment. I understand it - jockeying for market share must be the driver. Thanks, Steve.
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David Gates
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AviJake
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:16am |
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To be clear, we did not miss that guidance. There is a clause that permits exactly what we did but an internal argument with the cert authority overroad and the subsequent course reversal came too late in this project.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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888dom
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:13am |
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I did read that post Gary, thank you. I'm a little bummed that Avidyne somehow 'missed' the part where the FAA required directional icons for ADS-B traffic display. It seems like there must be published guidance of the rules to work from somewhere - the 'G' company must have read that line. I understand leaving things out for the speed of certification and I give Avidyne credit that since the release of the 540 they have been working feverishly to improve it. The speed to market problem still haunts them though and will for years to come.
Are there any teasers about the wifi/bluetooth iPad connection that you guys can share? I see this as likely the best feature of the 540. I've resisted buying a Stratus for 3 years hoping for a certified solution and on-screen display. I suppose another few months won't hurt me either but it's very disappointing that I'll still be waiting on ADS-B traffic on my 540 if I do purchase an MLB 100.
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AviJake
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:10am |
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Not exactly.
All the code required for Bluetooth and WiFi operations are in Release10.1.0.0. But, the FAA has added additional cert requirements on the STC side of that. So, until the extra STC work is done on that (post Rel 10.1.0.0 STC), we have set an internal bit in a manner that disables the Bluetooth and WiFi functionality. Once that extra STC work is done, a software utility will be released (at no $ charge) that you can squirt into the USB port that will take about 4 seconds. As for the WiFi apps, the vendors all still want to keep mum until you can actually download them from the app stores. So for now, we stay tight-lipped. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Gary T
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:01am |
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In a different thread discussion AviSimpson said bluetooth activation would be enabled ( version 10.1)
first and wifi released in a later version.
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Gary-T
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888dom
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Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 8:53am |
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Do you anticipate having the Wifi unlocked with version 10.1? If so, have you also been able to secure an agreement with a vendor (hopefully Foreflight) that will allow us to show the traffic on our iPads until you're able to demonstrate what the FAA requires to get it on the 540?
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Gring
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:55pm |
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Excellent!
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AviJake
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:43pm |
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I fly with them for what they expect to be their final flight test of this and the rest of 10.1.0.0 on Wed afternoon (tomorrow).
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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ddgates
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:39pm |
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Got it.
I don't envy you what you are doing, particularly WRT the Feds.
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David Gates
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AviJake
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:34pm |
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ADS-B guidance calls for directional indication for ADS-B traffic. That is not the case for TAS traffic icons.
Since we don't have that, then we are not permitted to display ADS-B traffic in Release 10.1.0.0 - this was the source of great confusion and conflicting guidance, neither of which were straightened out prior to going into software test-for-credit and documentation submission. And since we don't display ADS-B traffic, there is no aural alerting. Both will come in a follow-on release to 10.1.0.0.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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ddgates
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:30pm |
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Why wouldn't the same icons as depicting TAS traffic be acceptable.
"..the plan" tells me callouts are not going to be a part of the MLB release package V1.0. |
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David Gates
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AviJake
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:20pm |
1. Yes, that's the plan. 2. Yes, BUT......the FAA did not like our implementation of the traffic icons so we had to pull that part out of Release 10.1.0.0. We will be adding it pronto after 10.1 and the 440 are released. 3. Yes, that's included in Release 10.1.0.0.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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n7ifr
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 6:35pm |
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Jim,
Congrats on the 540/340. Glad to see you have moved from the 480 world - I am making the same move in 2-weeks and had been so reluctant at first to give up the great 480. Only a few small functions I will miss on the 480, but so much more on the 540 - I described the 540 to Keith Thomassen as a 480 on steroids! Good luck. Tom W.
Edited by n7ifr - 14 Apr 2015 at 6:37pm |
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SB Jim
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Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 5:31pm |
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Jake, I've got the IFD 540 and AXP 340 installed and playing nicely. Will the MLB 100 do the following: 1. Provide an aural traffic alert (e.g., "Traffic, 3 o'clock, high")? 2. Provide ADS-B In traffic display on the 540? 3. Provide FIS-B weather to the 540? If so, I'm very interested. If it just goes to an iPad app I've already got all that for quite a bit less $$ with the GDL 39. Regards, Jim |
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rolfe_tessem
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Posted: 05 Apr 2015 at 4:10pm |
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Any pre-order deal available? :-)
Rolfe |
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AviJake
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Posted: 29 Mar 2015 at 11:47am |
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MLB100 cert should be late April/early May.
Release 10.1.0.0 cert should be late April - we're driving to a Sun-n-Fun cert. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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jblodgett
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Posted: 29 Mar 2015 at 11:45am |
Steve, Do you have an update on the certification of the MLB100 and the software release 10.1 for the IFD-540? Thanks, Jim |
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ddgates
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Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 9:58am |
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For those of us who have AXP340s, and who will have the ADS-B upgrade to our TAS units, all we are going to need is a FIS-B receiver.
Any plans to help us out? |
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David Gates
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AviJake
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Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 9:50am |
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There are a host of configurations and options that will come from us as we get closer to the mandate but as for your specific example, I'm pretty sure the price of the L-3 unit is meaningfully more expensive than the combined AXP340/MLB100.
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Steve Jacobson
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Joe Jet
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Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 12:48am |
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Steve. is Avidyne going to make a transponder similar to the L-3 9000, but without the waas receiver. There seems to be quite a few ADS-B in/out solutions coming to market so I'm a bit hesitant to install the AXP340/MLB100 combo.
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Gary T
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Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 9:47am |
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From the Garmin ADS-B Academy website:
The FAA wants to encourage GA pilots whose aircraft typically operate below 18,000 ft to opt for 978 UAT, and thus help minimize congestion on the 1090 MHz frequency. The thinking is that a variety of free added-value features will further incentivize GA owners to adopt some form of 978 UAT for their ADS-B solution. It should also be pointed out that since the FAA’s infrastructure will rebroadcast information between 1090 ES and 978 UAT systems, it’s also possible for users to install a mixed ADS-B solution — for example, one using an ES transponder for ADS-B “Out” and a 978 UAT datalink receiver for ADS-B “In”. A variety of intriguing combinations can be considered.
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Gary-T
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jrm356
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Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 1:00am |
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Aircraft under 18,000' outside a mode C veil won't be required to have ADS-B Out, dual band will not see them.
Back to ADS-R From AC 20-165A 11/07/12 3-2 ADS-B Equipment b(2) "(2) Mixed transmit/receive classifications. TSO-C166b and TSO-C154c allow Class
A transmit-only and Class A receive-only equipment configurations. There are no restrictions
for installing a certain class of receive equipment with a different class of transmit equipment.
For example, a Class A3 transmit-only unit can be used in the same aircraft with a Class A1
receive-only unit. It is also acceptable to have a TSO-C166b transmitter and a TSO-C154c
receiver and vice versa." TSO-C166b is 1090, TSO-C154c is 978 and section 4, talking about multiple ADS-B Out systems "Note: 2: Installation of dual 1090ES and UAT ADS-B IN capability is acceptable and
encouraged."
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165A.pdf |
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:59pm |
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One other point, (almost) independent of the ADS-R band issue, is that a dual-band receiver provides traffic outside of the ground ADS station service volume, something valuable in mountainous areas at lower elevations. After 2020 (assuming the mandate holds), you'll have all traffic, anywhere in the US (well, excepting traffic operated by scofflaws.)
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:45pm |
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(Thanks for the point-out on the edit.)
Here are some more authoritative (and fairly recent) sources on the translation vs. in-band rebroadcast aspect of ADS-R: http://www.avidyne.com/landing/ads-bee/what-is-ads-b.asp#adsr http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/library/media/getSmart_ADSB.pdf http://www.exelisinc.com/solutions/ADS-B/Pages/ADS-B-Features-and-Capabilities.aspx
Edited by AzAv8r - 05 Feb 2015 at 9:46pm |
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MysticCobra
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:38pm |
Note that you can use the "Post Options" button (for a limited time after posting) to Edit your message, rather than posting a separate reply with a correction.
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:17pm |
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Oops, in the second paragraph that should be "...would be necessary for a UAT-In to provide traffic information in conjunction with 1090ES-OUT."
Here's the AIM section: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0405.html |
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:12pm |
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I would be thrilled to learn that my assertion is incorrect, but I have been collecting (and reading) all ADS-B technical documents I could get my hands on for several years.
Right up until the final TSO versions, it was pretty easy to find them online via Google at FAA and ICAO websites. Everything in those documents indicates that rebroadcast is cross-band only. Nothing I have found indicates that the FAA will retransmit in the same band, which would be necessary for a UAT-In to provide traffic information in conjunction with UAT out. The description in the current AIM (sec 4-5-10) clearly states "translation". Given that the RTCA, ICAO, and FAA documents all agree that there is no in-band retransmission, and that there are technical (spectrum) reasons to not do so, I am highly skeptical that the FAA intends to support that. The message definitions for UAT-out would in fact allow in-band retransmission, because the UAT reports the specific ADS-B In band that is installed in the aircraft. But I find no such message in the 1090ES documents I have. It might be there, but if so I missed it. I'll note the Trig statement is ambiguous, and can be interpreted either as "in-band retransmission" or "translation". But the former definition directly conflicts with FAA, RTCA, and ICAO statements, and the latter conflicts with the message they are trying to convey. Hopefully someone will prove me wrong. Note that it "can work" is not the same as "it will work", because the FAA has to be committed to continuing any in-band retransmission they might currently be doing. |
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Gary T
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 8:54pm |
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I am not familiar with the skywatch TAS unit, however Sagetech (Clarity ADSB website) states:
• ADS-R (Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Rebroadcast) is a simple repeater. Messages received on 1090 MHz are re-broadcast on 978 MHz, and messages received on 978 MHz are re-broadcast on 1090 MHz. This makes a data-connection between the two ADS-B channels.
Again, the ADS-B Out limitation applies equally here. Only aircraft with the right kind of ADS-B Out equipment willreceive traffic targets over ADS-R. If my airplane has ADS-B Out, will I receive TIS-B/ADS-R Traffic near my aircraft? A: Maybe. If ALL of the following are true, you’ll get TIS-B/ADS-R Traffic: - Your ADS-B transmitter has to comply with the most recent version of ADS-B out (currently version 3). Note that the present version of the Garmin 330 is not of the latest standard, so it is our understanding that users of Garmin 330ES with ADS-B Out will NOT receive TIS-B/ADS-R - Your transmitter must also have the appropriate configuration to indicate receive capability on either 1090 MHz, 978 MHz, or both. Then you‘ll receive TIS-B on the indicated receive channel. If your equipment states receive capability on both 978 MHz and 1090 MHz, you’ll receive TIS-B on only 978 MHz. You’ll also receive ADS-R on the indicated receive channel. Clarity receives on both 978 MHz and 1090 MHz. |
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Gary-T
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scastelino
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 12:41pm |
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So I'm a bit confused - if I have the MLB100 and an existing TAS system (I have a skywatch). What will I get on my MFD? Date from both? just one?
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jrm356
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 9:56am |
The AXP340 has a configuration entry to indicate what type of ADS-B In service you have installed. It is possible this is ignored. But from Trig's site: "It is worth pointing out that in the US the FAA infrastructure will rebroadcast information between 1090 ES and UAT systems so that the traffic information is available identically on either data link. With the weather data available on UAT, the UAT data link therefore contains all the information you might need. There is no requirement for your ADS-B In receiver to use the same technology as your ADS-B Out system, and in the US there is therefore a good argument for using a 1090 ES ADS-B Out solution together with UAT for ADS-B In." |
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Paul
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Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 8:39am |
This contradicts everything I have read or heard about how ADS-B operates. Although some experts have contradicted others this doesn't match any of them. Could you tell me where it comes from? |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 04 Feb 2015 at 11:27pm |
That is the first I've heard of such a suggestion, I don't believe you have that right. Ground station ADS-B rebroadcasts blend all data sources of traffic, including 1090, UAT & conventional secondary radar, they do not delete certain elements based on where they were sourced. Further, all ADS-B OUT devices also transmit what ADS-B IN capability is on board. I would expect that that is what drives what frequency ADS-B rebroadcast is sent on. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 04 Feb 2015 at 11:28pm |
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AzAv8r
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Posted: 04 Feb 2015 at 11:10pm |
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The MLB100 + AXP340 is NOT a solution. Since the 340 is 1090 out, the FAA assumes you have 1090 in and doesn't rebroadcast other 1090 traffic. Without 1090-in you are blind to 1090 traffic unless there happens to be a UAT -out equipped aircraft in your immediate vicinity AND you are in TIS-B coverage.
No thanks. The only meaningful solution for the majority of aircraft is dual-band in. Almost trivial design delta from a UAT-only receiver, and the only way to have protection in non-radar or non TIS-B airspace. I'll stick with a portable until a real solution becomes available. |
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AviJake
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Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 3:39pm |
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Luckily the front seat is a wide bench-like seat that should accommodate everybody who has called shotgun so far.
I've forwarded the question on pre-buy or queue assignment since I don't know the answer. We are timing the shipments of the MLB100 to be aligned with IFD540 Release 10.1 in the early spring. |
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Steve Jacobson
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pburger
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Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 12:38pm |
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Steve,
I've drunk the Kool-Aid, and would like to put my name on the list for the MLB100. Is there any way to do a pre-order? Maybe a deposit for a delivery slot? In other words, I'm calling SHOTGUN! |
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888dom
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Posted: 16 Dec 2014 at 7:22pm |
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As much as I hate to put my eggs in one basket - I understand the market capture protocol as well. This being said, I was an early prepurchaser of the IFD540 and have just ordered the AXP 340 to replace my KT76A. (Hopefully it ships ASAP!) I'm interested in the ADS-B WX and Traffic IN on my 540. I, like many others, fly with an IPad. They are awesome. BUT, in order to get ADS-B wx in on the iPad, requires spending an additional $1k (or so), plus having another box to charge, maintain, etc. Cords in the cockpit anyone? No thanks. My question is - for those of us who have given you our first born's inheritance, are you anticipating any deals on the MLB100? I purchased the 540 to be on the brink of technology at a discounted price and will strongly consider the MLB100 if you have a similar offering. Also, I'd really like to see the certification path for installation to go like this: 1) The MLB100 uses the IFD 540 as a position source, negating the need for an additional antenna. 2) The MLB100 uses the AXP340 and the existing transponder antenna for all things ADS-B related, also negating the need for an additional antenna. 3) There will be no additional need for an airspeed switch or air/ground mode device. 4) The MLB100 will send ADS-B traffic and weather to an iPad via the wifi/Bluetooth within the IFD540 (or an internal transmitter). 5) This data sent out via wifi/Bluetooth will work with ForeFlight. 6) The MLB 100 will eventually also send/receive WX, TIS-A/B traffic to the Aspen PFD. 7) The pricing should be somewhere in the $1500 (or less) range. As this solution is only ADS-B "IN", and you must pay for installation as well, you must keep it competitive with the portables. Are they worth $800-1000? Maybe if it is going to cost $3500 for a certified unit with the exact same functionality. An AXP-340 meets the FAA mandate. The MLB is just 'fluff' and nice to have, though I'd buy one in a heartbeat for the right price. I can buy a Freeflight Ranger 978 today for $3995, it outputs to the iPad, they are working with Aspen, Foreflight, and it would even put traffic on the 530/540. They claim they are working with you for ADS-B weather too (which you may not do since you are working on your own box). However, if you compare apples to apples - $3995 gets you ADS-B in and out, with several display options in one box without a new transponder. The AXP340 - $3995 + MLB100 $2500 makes your equivalent solution $6500. Enter smart minded consumers and free market capitalism. I suspect that this means you should rethink your strategy. |
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Gary T
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Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 10:11am |
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Gring,
During one of my past job assignments ( 9 yrs ago) I was deeply involved with Sirius and XM tuner design (for cars). I still have and operate both legacy portable receivers. Since millions of Sirius and XM car receivers (and portable) are still in use/functioning creating income for the new SiriusXM merged company, I strongly believe they will continue to transmit legacy (compatible) signals to support these old units, as long as enough income is received. Same applies to the thousands of XM aviation weather receivers. Old portable XM aviation receivers can be upgraded with new receiver software ( had to do this several years ago-mandatory to continue to receive). I am not familiar with software upgrades for certified old XM aviation installed receivers, I would think it is possible. However parts to repair the old units (greater than 10 yrs old) will likely become a problem, causing companies like Garmin to no longer provide repair support in the future. Since Avidyne provides interface support for the "old" Garmin GDL69/69A units, I would think they will also provide support for the expanded feature new GDL69SXM ( in time). It is easier for Avidyne to interface a new Garmin SXM weather receiver than design from scratch/certify a unique Avidyne SXM receiver (my opinion). |
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Gary-T
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Gring
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Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 8:21am |
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I did not see a form for the older weather products like the MLB700, so, I'll ask it here. The following was in AvWeb this morning regarding the new iPad weather box from SiruisXM
"The SXAR1 won't receive the WxWorx XM Weather data that is provided by Baron Services. It is unknown how long older broadcast receivers—including the first generation Garmin GXM-series receivers that interface with older Garmin portable GPS systems—will continue to work. As we go to press, Garmin announced the GDL69 SXM receiver, the next-generation unit that will receive the new weather packages. " This seems to indicate movement on the new weather protocol discussed at Oshkosh several years ago. I'm still in the camp that I'd rather pay for a more reliable weather service than ADS-B, and am wondering if notice has been given that the older products will be sunset? And If Avidyne is planning on developing a product based around the new protocol and available with SiriusXM music? Edited by Gring - 12 Dec 2014 at 8:22am |
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AviJake
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Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 7:58am |
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We're timing the release to come out with the accompanying IFD540/440 Software Release 10.1 which includes support for it. That is looking like the March timeframe.
The EX500/600/5000 will also support it. Other products are in the pipeline too (like dual band devices) but are further out, schedule-wise.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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jblodgett
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Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 7:33pm |
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Are there plans to offer a dual frequency (978/1090) receiver in the future?
Thanks, Jim Edited by jblodgett - 11 Dec 2014 at 7:42pm |
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sikhpilotmd
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Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 4:08pm |
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Any further updates on this? Availability? Features?
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Gring
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Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 7:15am |
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Heads Up Technologies:
http://www.heads-up.com |
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ddgates
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Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 11:07am |
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Ditto that.
By Heads Up, do you mean Navworx? Or Freeflight? Don't know and can't find a Heads Up company. I would suggest that since Avidyne sort of herded us in the Aspen direction (DFC90), and even though that dating relationship may have cooled <heard anything about Connected Panel within last 2 years?> Avidyne would be wise to try to interoperate with Aspen equipment. I am prewired for Aspen's dual frequency display box <they say Q1 2015>, and as mentioned above I would like for it to be able to display ADS-B Wx on both the Aspen MFD and the dual 540s I now have.
Edited by ddgates - 19 Oct 2014 at 11:09am |
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David Gates
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MikeK
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Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 3:29am |
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I do hope that support for Heads Up and Aspen weather makes it into a later release. (I understand that Heads Up built the Aspen box, so it should be possible to share some of the work between the two.) I can display the weather on the Aspen MFD of course, but I would like the flexibility of having it on the 540's screen if desired.
Thanks for the confirmation, Steve! Complicated stuff to understand with all the different ADS-B frequencies out there...
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SB Jim wrote: