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Direct-To Function |
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Gring 
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Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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 Topic: Direct-To FunctionPosted: 25 Aug 2015 at 9:23am |
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Now that there is a wide base of users from a diverse pilot population, I wanted to see if other users had opinions on the functionality of the Direct-To function when used with an existing flight plan. When used with a flight plan in the FMS you might use the Direct-To function for the following reasons:
- To go direct to a waypoint when taking off IFR with RV (ie Cleared xxx depart rwy 11 rv wpt1, airway1, wpt2, airway2, etc.) After take off you would need to go Direct-To a waypoint rather than activating a leg. - Taking off VFR to center your course pointer since the active leg beginning waypoint is the airport marker, not where you exit the pattern. After exiting the pattern you might press Direct-To rather than flying back to the center of the active leg. - IFR deviation for weather or traffic when ATC says "proceed direct to waypoint xxx". You are now off your route and need navigation direct to the assigned waypoint so you press Direct-To. There are probably dozens of other scenarios, but in each one, you are proceeding Direct to a waypoint already in your flight plan, and most likely the first waypoint, so the buttonology would be Direct-To, Enter, Enter. What I find is that I am normally on the MAP page on the IFD, so I press Direct-To, Enter, Enter which then leaves the IFD in Flight Plan Plus mode (FLP+) where the screen is split with the Map view on most of the real estate and the flight plan on the right side. This would be the same as pressing the FMS (which we didn't do), and pressing the "MAP" side tab. To exit this function, back to the MAP page you need to press the MAP side tab, then the MAP button, in other words, several other button pushes for a simple Direct To function., that are unnecessary for me. For the way I use the IFD, I would like the unit to return to the same page I was on when I pressed the Direct-To button, even those with one IFD. For those with dual IFDs I think this may be additional work that is unnecessary where you have the room for a MAP on one IFD and the FMS page on the other IFD which is just a larger view of of the FPL+ mode. I do like that when you press the Direct-To button you can scroll through the flight plan and select an appropriate waypoint without typing it in. Edited by Gring - 25 Aug 2015 at 9:27am |
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DH82FLYER
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Joined: 15 Dec 2012 Location: Queensland Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 2015 at 9:34am |
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Gring,
I agree completely. I find it nothing but a nuisance to end up on the FMS page following a "Direct To". Thomas
Edited by DH82FLYER - 25 Aug 2015 at 9:41am |
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oskrypuch
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 2015 at 9:39am |
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I could go either way, but I don't mind ending up on the FMS page. It helps confirm my selection was the correct one.
Perhaps a user setting?
* Orest |
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wookie
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 25 Aug 2015 at 10:47am |
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Having been brought up on garMIN starting with '90s, etc, it bothers me that the default Direct TO isn't just a new direct to the current waypoint. If I want something different, it's entirely reasonable to go to the flight plan to get it. BH
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BH
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 25 Aug 2015 at 10:56am |
Well, whether a *arminism or not, having DCT default to the geographically next fltplan waypoint makes sense to me too. AviJake has posted that the default DCT waypoint logic needs some work. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 25 Aug 2015 at 10:56am |
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Gring
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Posted: 25 Aug 2015 at 1:39pm |
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I think the Direct-To functions correctly, and has the added benefit of being able to quickly select a different waypoint than the next waypoint in the list. When you press Direct-To it defaults to the next waypoint, then with the big knob (or touch screen, or keyboard) you can move down the list to other waypoints. If the waypoint is not in the flight plan, then the small knob (or touch screen, or keyboard) you can enter a new waypoint. This part is great and very useful.
Edited by Gring - 25 Aug 2015 at 1:41pm |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 25 Aug 2015 at 1:51pm |
The twirly knob reselecting different waypoints to DCT to, is way cool. I suspect that most folks are unaware of this feature, it was a eureka moment when I first discovered it. * Orest |
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94S
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Posted: 26 Aug 2015 at 12:10pm |
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I just discovered the ability to select other way points in the flight plan using the touch function with the Direct To open yesterday during my instrument check ride. Pretty cool feature. It's also nice to know that it works with the knob too (but that obviously makes sense because that is another way to navigate the flight plan).
I was thinking it would be nice to have the keyboard auto pop-up when the Direct To button is pushed, but now that I know about the ability to scroll up and down the flight plan to select waypoint, maybe that doesn't make as much sense. |
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Gring
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Posted: 26 Aug 2015 at 12:16pm |
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After you hit the Direct-TO button, If you touch the Direct To box (or twist the small knob), the virtual keyboard pops up so you can enter a waypoint. So, I think it operates like you want it to.
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94S
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Posted: 26 Aug 2015 at 12:30pm |
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I know that touching the Direct To box and turning the small knob brings up the keyboard. Prior to knowing about the ability to select other waypoints in the flight plan, I was thinking that the keyboard should pop up as soon as the Direct To button is pushed, eliminating the step of touching the Direct To box or turning the knob. But now the fact that it doesn't auto pop up makes more sense because the keyboard would cover up the flight plan.
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 26 Aug 2015 at 2:46pm |
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I think you have an extra button push in there. I just have to press the middle of the MAP rocker switch and I'm back to the map screen. It makes sense to me that when you're changing the flight plan, you're viewing the FMS screen. But I have noticed that I once wondered where my data blocks went, and then pressed the MAP rocker. David Bunin |
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Gring
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Posted: 26 Aug 2015 at 3:06pm |
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David, Yes that is true, but then you have the FMS still in FPL+ mode when I really just want the full flight plan.
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 8:09am |
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If the goal is to get back to the map screen, why should I care what mode the FMS screen is in?
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Gring
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Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 8:16am |
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I care because I use the FMS screen quite a bit and I like the full width FMS information. The goal isn't to get back to the MAP screen, the goal is to have the device configured the way I want it. I consider the Flight plan page and the FPL+ page to be different configurations. After I press Direct-to enter, enter, I have to reconfigure the FMS page back to the way I want it for my normal usage.
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teeth6
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Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 6:29pm |
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Gring, For clarity, what are you calling the FPL+ page. Is that the page with the full flight plan and no map visible at all?
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Gring
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Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 6:38pm |
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FPL+ is when the flight plan page is open, but the flight plan is on the right tab and the rest of the screen is a Map. You enter FLP+ by pressing on the MAP tab in the Flight Plan tab in the FMS page
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teeth6
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Posted: 27 Aug 2015 at 9:02pm |
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Thanks. I use those pages but didn't know it was called the FPL+ page. On the sim, if you are in the full width FMS page and hit direct to-enter-enter, it does not take you to the FPL+ page but rather leaves you in the full width flight plan page. Likewise, if you do it when you are on the FPL+ page, it leaves you there after you hit enter-enter
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DavidBunin
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Posted: 28 Aug 2015 at 8:14am |
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Yes, but you missed the original scenario. The setup was pressing the Direct button from the actual MAP, not from any page or view of the FMS section. When you press Direct from the MAP, it takes you to the FMS+ page immediately. David Bunin |
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wookie
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Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 11:06pm |
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Old analog ideas die hard, but I find that more often than not I am
giving the box Direct TO to refresh the current waypoint (as going
around a cell, or maneuvering after takeoff, or looking at something on
the ground or wanting to get a fresh center for ap coupling) far more
often than going to the next waypoint.
Next waypoint usually sequences automatically. So I want it to refresh the current waypoint unless I explicitly give it direct to somewhere else. The Garmins do this. Choosing the alternative wp with the Avidyne IS very nice. But I'm not inherently a FMS thinking guy. BH |
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BH
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teeth6
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 7:33am |
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Can someone tell me the best way to handle this situation. I was on V162 between 2 waypoints. ATC gave me a 30 degree right vector for about 5 minutes. They then gave me a left turn with a heading to fly and asked me to re-intercept V162. Since I was already past the previous waypoint and had not reached the next one, the "activate leg" feature was not available. They did not want me to fly direct to the next point so I couldn't do a "direct to". The only way I could see to do it was to first do a "direct to" my previous waypoint which brought up the "activate leg" LSK and then I activated the leg to the next waypoint. Is there a more elegant way to do this?
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 7:44am |
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What you really need is a HDG ->GPS/(LOC) mode. Hopefully that will reappear in a future release. It was removed during certification due to FAA issues.
* Orest |
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MysticCobra
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 7:47am |
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With 10.1.0.0, you should be able to "rubber band" your course to match the assigned heading and V162 intercept.
Since I'm still running 10.0.3.0, I would have simply dialed in the assigned heading and either flown it by hand or with the autopilot in HDG mode, and kept an eye on the map to manually intercept V162, then picked "Direct To" the next V162 waypoint (or "activate leg").
Edited by MysticCobra - 31 Aug 2015 at 7:49am |
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Gring
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 8:13am |
Without being there, it is hard to fully know what you were seeing, however, I believe your active leg was still previous waypont, next waypoint, and that never changed. You couldn't activate that leg simply because it was already the active leg. Since you deviated right of course, you were just that, right of course and your CDI would show that as well as the GPS. To get back on your active leg, you would simply fly to the left, on your assigned heading until the CDI centered. There isn't anything else to do. Orest is right that there was a "Fly vectors" feature that would have given you GPS navigation back on track, but that is only available in R9 and was removed from IFD540 prior to certification. If you have a Flight Director / Autopilot, I would simply have put it in HDG mode, set my pointer to the assigned heading. I would have then armed the NAV mode or GPSS mode and either hand flown or let the autopilot fly you back on course. Hope this helps.
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AviSimpson
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 12:17pm |
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Here is a quick write up from our Principal Software Engineer that heads up the FMS design of both R9 and the IFD's. This might help clear up some misunderstandings of the direct to function. When you press direct-to, the
identifier that is initially presented is dependent upon the page being
displayed and is almost always based on the cursor position. So, for the
FPL, WPT, and NRST pages, a direct-to will initially present the identifier of
the item surrounded by the cursor. A direct-to on the INFO page will
initially present the identifier of the facility being viewed on that page
(i.e. regardless of where the cursor is on that page). On the ROUTE page
and any non-FMS page, the system will branch back to the FPL+ page first, then
present the identifier of the item surrounded by the cursor on that page.
The theory behind that concept is that you're likely to want to go direct-to the item that you're "currently looking at" and the cursor is the mechanism for the FMS to know which item that is. So, if you leave the FPL cursor on the active leg and you're looking at the MAP page, then doing a direct-to will present the active waypoint identifier, just like brand G. It was our thought that the cursor would most often be left on the active leg. When the flight plan is activated, the cursor moves to the active leg. If the cursor is on the active leg and it sequences, then the cursor will follow the active leg. If the cursor is after the active leg, then when the active leg finally sequences onto that leg, the cursor will follow it with subsequent leg sequencing. If the cursor is before the active leg, it will remain there until the user moves it. So it is the system's goal to keep the cursor around the active leg, but overt user actions can trump that goal. The FMS does have a power-user function that may not be well known in order to aid in getting the FPL cursor back to the active leg. If you spin the outer knob really fast in the direction of the active leg, the cursor will jump immediately back to the active leg. So, for instance, if the cursor is at the end of the flight plan, spinning the outer knob counter-clockwise really fast will move the cursor to the active leg. Similarly, if you spin the outer knob really fast in the other direction (i.e. away from the active leg), then the cursor will jump either to the beginning or the end of the flight plan, depending upon which side of the active leg the cursor is on. |
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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Gring
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 1:10pm |
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Simpson, That is all great information, but doesn't address the initial design point I was discussing which is after selecting Direct-To while on the MAP page, you return to the FPL+ page. When I do a Direct-To, I want to return back to the same page I was on. I don't need to go to the FPL+ page and it causes me extra steps to reconfigure the box to the way it was before hand. I don't ever need to use the FPL+ page, especially with dual IFDs where I can always have a MAP visible on at least one IFD.
Edited by Gring - 31 Aug 2015 at 1:10pm |
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oskrypuch
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Posted: 31 Aug 2015 at 3:39pm |
That is WAY cool. Now I want to try it out! How about a listing of "power user" tips!? * Orest |
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wookie wrote: