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TAS and ADS-B FAQs

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FlyingLester View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Jun 2010 at 9:23am

This AvidyneLive topic addresses frequently asked questions (FAQs) about the ADS-B and Avidyne TAS600 and TAS600A series of traffic sensors. Please post any additional questions about the TAS600 traffic sensors or ADS-B here and I will be happy to answer them as best I can.

What is ADS-B?

ADS-B or Automatic Dependent Surveillance – Broadcast, is a system for air traffic surveillance.  With ADS-B, each aircraft broadcasts its own GPS position along with other information like heading, ground track, ground speed, altitude.  Receivers on the ground then receive this information and send it to air traffic control displays.  The ADS-B information can be used to augment existing primary and secondary (transponder-based) radar or used in lieu of those radar technologies.   Aircraft that broadcast this information are considered to be equipped with ADS-B Out.

The information broadcast by each aircraft can also be received by other nearby aircraft and that information can be displayed on a traffic display such as a multi-function display (MFD).  Aircraft that can receive ADS-B information have ADS-B In.

The ADS-B information used by air traffic controllers will allow improved separation services along with additional future applications such as continuous descent approaches.  ADS-B information in the cockpit will allow better situational awareness and traffic avoidance along with future applications such as self-separation.

Ground vehicles on airports will also be equipped with at least ADS-B Out to help prevent runway incursions.

What is the difference between ADS-B In and Out?

ADS-B Out systems automatically broadcast an aircraft’s (or ground vehicle’s) GPS position about every second.  ADS-B In systems receive those broadcasts from other air and ground vehicles along with from FAA ground stations.  The ground station data can include other traffic information along with weather and NOTAM information.  The data received with an ADS-B In system is dependent on the ADS-B link and the capabilities of the receiver.  Some ADS-B systems do both ADS-B In and Out.

What is the FAA mandate for ADS-B?

The FAA has mandated ADS-B Out by 2020 on all aircraft operating in current Mode-C airspace (Around class B and C airspace along with above 10,000 ft).  The mandate allows either 1090-ES or UAT ADS-B Out on aircraft.  The 1090-ES link is required for aircraft that fly above FL180. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/29305.pdf

The FAA and their contractor, ITT, are on track to have the entire ADS-B ground infrastructure in place by 2013, 7 years before the mandate.  This ground infrastructure is already available for most of the East coast and supports TIS-B, ADS-R, and FIS-B along with sending ADS-B information to ATC.  http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/coverage/

What ADS-B mandates are in Europe?

The European Commission issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in 2009 that would mandate 1090-ES ADS-B Out after February 5, 2015 for aircraft over 12,500 lbs or cruise speed greater than 250 kts.  Europe chose 1090-ES since it works with their existing Mode-S Elementary Surveillance (ELS) and Enhanced Surveillance (EHS) mandates.  http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/europe-to-mandate-ads-b-five-years-ahead-of-faa-19715/

What is the difference between 1090-ES and UAT ADS-B?

The FAA mandate supports two technologies for ADS-B, 1090 MHz Extended Squitter (1090-ES) and Universal Access Transceiver (UAT).  1090-ES uses the same frequency used by Mode-S transponders and includes the ADS-B information as extra data on the Mode-S transponder transmissions, hence the ‘extended squitter’ name.  UAT uses the 978 MHz frequency that has been reserved for ADS-B.  Since there is a difference in frequencies between the two technologies, UAT receivers cannot receive 1090-ES ADS-B transmissions and 1090-ES receivers cannot receive UAT transmissions.

The ADS-B ground stations will re-transmit the information on the opposite link so that all aircraft can be seen on cockpit traffic displays.  This is known as ADS-R, R for rebroadcast.

The UAT technology also allows additional information to be uplinked to aircraft from ground stations through FIS-B (Flight Information System – Broadcast).  This information includes weather and TFR information similar to the information already provided by XM or Sirius/WSI.

What is FIS-B?

FIS-B stands for Flight Information System – Broadcast and is only available with UAT link ADS-B In.  When in range of a ground station, weather and NOTAM information can be received by a UAT receiver and displayed in the cockpit on a MFD or EFB.  The following data is currently available: AIRMETs, SIGMETs, METARs, NEXRAD, NOTAMs, TFRs, PIREPs, SUA Status, TAFs, and Winds/Temps Aloft.  This data is similar to information already provided by XM or Sirius/WSI, however the update rate is faster with FIS-B, but the geographical coverage area is much smaller.   For example at low altitudes, only 150nm of NEXRAD is available and 250nm of METAR, TAF, and AIRMET data.  Additionally at remote airports, no data may be available on the surface.

What is TIS-B?

TIS-B stands for Traffic Information System – Broadcast and involves ADS-B ground stations sending Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR) targets to aircraft with ADS-B In.  TIS-B targets will be updated at least every 2 seconds on the surface, 6 seconds in the terminal area, and 12.1 seconds in the en-route airspace.

What is ADS-R?

ADS-R stands for Automatic Dependent Surveillance – Re-broadcast and involves ADS-B ground stations repeating ADS-B messages from one link (1090-ES or UAT) to the other link for aircraft with ADS-B In.  ADS-R targets will be updated at least every 2 seconds on the surface, 5 seconds in the terminal area, and 10 seconds in the en-route airspace.

How is ADS-B different from TAS?

TAS systems, which must meet TSO-C147, are on-board, active-surveillance Traffic Advisory Systems that independently interrogate nearby transponder-equipped aircraft and determine bearing and range from the replies.

ADS-B is dependent upon aircraft broadcasting their GPS positions to other aircraft.  To see other aircraft, they must be broadcasting ADS-B Out messages and you must be equipped with ADS-B In to receive those messages.  ADS-B is dependent on other aircraft having being equipped to support ADS-B Out.

How is TAS different from TCAS?

There are two types of TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System), TCAS I and TCAS II.  TAS systems are almost identical to TSO-C118 TCAS I systems, in fact they use the same set of requirements or Minimum Operational Performance Standards (MOPS).  Both systems actively interrogate nearby Mode A, C, and S transponders and issue Traffic Alerts (TAs – “Traffic, Traffic”).  The difference is that TCAS I systems have a 1030 MHz receiver that can detect the number of nearby TCAS systems and thus send a more powerful interrogation when fewer aircraft are nearby.  TCAS II systems go beyond TCAS I systems in that they require dual Mode-S transponders, they can coordinate with other Mode-S transponders on other aircraft and they can issue Resolution Advisories (RAs – “Climb, Climb”).

Why is an Active Traffic System like the Avidyne TAS600 Series still important in an ADS-B environment?

Active Traffic Systems (including TAS and TCAS) use Mode-A, C, or S transponder interrogations to determine aircraft bearing and distance.  Altitude is determined by reported Mode-C altitude.  After the ADS-B mandate, aircraft will still be required to have a Mode-C or S transponder in airspace where it is currently required, thus Active Traffic Systems will continue to function.

Active Traffic Systems are valuable for three reasons in an ADS-B environment.   First, during the initial equipage period (through 2020) not all aircraft will have ADS-B.  Thus without an Active Traffic System, those unequipped aircraft would not be displayed on a cockpit traffic display even if you had ADS-B In.  Second, since the FAA mandate allows both 1090-ES and UAT ADS-B technologies, if the ADS-R system is not functional or you are out of range of a ground station, the ADS-B In will not display aircraft of the opposite type.  An Active Traffic System will display all aircraft independent of the type of ADS-B Out since all aircraft will still be required to have a Mode-C or Mode-S transponder.  Third, ADS-B is dependent on GPS signals, so during periods of poor satellite geometry or solar storms, GPS position and thus ADS-B will not be available.  The FAA is keeping ATC radars as a backup and an Active Traffic System can act as a backup to ADS-B in the cockpit.

Do Avidyne TAS600 series of traffic systems support ADS-B?

Avidyne is currently developing an ADS-B In upgrade to the TAS600 series of traffic systems.  Ryan 9900BX, TAS600, TAS610, and TAS620 owners can lock in a $2,000 upgrade price for ADS-B In simply by registering at http://www.avidyne.com/landing/tas600-adsb.asp.

What is the ADS-B upgrade plan for the TAS600 series of traffic systems?

Avidyne is planning on making an upgrade available to the TAS600 series of traffic systems to make them able to display traffic from 1090-ES equipped ADS-B Out aircraft.  This upgrade will turn the TAS600 series unit into a TAS600A series unit. Owners can lock in a $2,000 price for this ADS-B In upgrade by registering at http://www.avidyne.com/landing/tas600-adsb.asp.

How much will the ADS-B upgrade cost?

The upgrade is expected to cost at least $2,000.  However before the end of 2010, owners can lock in a $2,000 upgrade price by registering at http://www.avidyne.com/landing/tas600-adsb.asp.

Will I be able to buy an ADS-B equipped TAS600 series traffic system?

Yes.  Avidyne is going to offer TAS600A, TAS610A, and TAS620A traffic systems.  Availability and pricing has not been announced yet.  See http://www.avidyne.com/products/tas600a/index.asp for more information.

What will I get with ADS-B In support in my TAS?

ADS-B In support in the TAS will allow the TAS to receive ADS-B information from 1090-ES equipped ADS-B Out aircraft.  It will still also display traffic information from Mode-A, C, and S transponders.  The range for receiving ADS-B information is larger than can be used for active traffic interrogations, increasing the effective range of the TAS for ADS-B In.  The ADS-B position will also be used to enhance the accuracy of the bearing and range to a target.

The TAS also will receive the additional information provided by ADS-B (heading, track, on-ground status, etc) and provide this information to compatible traffic displays.  The MFD or other display must be updated to take advantage of this additional information.

Will the TAS600A allow me to comply with the FAA mandate?

No, you must equip with an ADS-B Out system to be compliant with the FAA ADS-B mandate.

What is Avidyne’s plan for ADS-B Out?

Avidyne has been watching the developments in ADS-B rule making very closely, and now that the rules are fully defined, we are able to continue forward with our plans for supporting ADS-B Out.  You can expect that Avidyne will bring innovative ADS-B technologies to the GA community at affordable prices in order to further our goal of aviation safety.

What should I do now about getting my airplane equipped for ADS-B?

First if you have an Avidyne TAS system, Avidyne recommends signing up for the TAS600A upgrade now to lock in the price and in order to get ADS-B In benefits as soon as possible.  With respect to ADS-B Out, there are two major reasons for waiting to equip.  First, as of this post, there are no products currently on the market which meet the FAA’s mandate for TSO-C166b (1090-ES) or TSO-C154c (UAT).  These TSOs are based on RTCA MOPS that were not published until late 2009, and thus no existing ADS-B manufacturers have created compliant systems.  Second, as more manufacturers enter the market, the prices of ADS-B systems are expected to drop significantly.  Just as panel mounted GPS systems evolved rapidly in the first 10 years of being on the market, with increasing features at reduced prices, similar trends are to be expected with ADS-B systems before 2020. 


Do you have more questions?   Please post them below.

Ted Lester, Product Manager

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingLester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 8:34am
There were a few questions related to ADS-B that came up in Wednesday's webinar that I didn't have immediate answers.  For everyone's information here they are.

Does the FIS-B weather use base reflectivity or composite reflectivity for the NEXRAD product?
I checked with WSI, the weather provider for FIS-B and they provide composite reflectivity for FIS-B.

Why are primary radar targets not passed via TIS-B to pilots?
I talked with ITT about this.  It comes down the classic engineering trade-off of cost and complexity versus benefits.  Adding primary radar targets to the system would increase the ADS-B ground system's cost and complexity.  It would also provide limited information to pilots, especially in ADS-B rule airspace where users must equip with ADS-B by 2020.  Outside of ADS-B rule airspace there will be little to no ADS-B ground station (or radar) coverage.  So everyone's going to have to keep those Mk I eyeballs in working order to maintain vigilance against aircraft without transponders or ADS-B.

Can you please post the webinar slides online?

I'm also doing repeat of the webinar on January 12 at 12pm EST.  Sign up here: http://www.avidyne.com/support/webinars/adsb.asp


Edited by FlyingLester - 09 Nov 2010 at 8:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sonecdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 1:01pm
I currently have a Mode C transponder coupled to my TAS 600.  I assume that eventually I will need a Mode S transponder.  Will I need a Mode S transponder to upgrade to a TAS 600A?  If not, when will I need a Mode S transponder?  Also, would there be an advantage, costwise, to upgrading to a TAS615 when upgrading to a TAS 600A?  I would like to upgrade to a TAS 615, but only if it will give me the advantages of ADS-B in at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingLester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 1:09pm
Good question sonecdave.  Eventually (by 2020), you will need ADS-B out.  This can be achieved either through replacing your Mode-C transponder with a Mode-S Transponder with Extended Squitter (ADS-B Out) or by adding a UAT ADS-B Out system to your aircraft, leaving in the Mode-C transponder.  It is unclear which option will be cheaper at this point since there are no rule-compliant ADS-B out systems available for GA right now.  

Avidyne is hoping to certify the TAS600A series so that it doesn't require an installed ADS-B Out system.  However, not all ADS-B In functions will work without a ADS-B Out system.  

To answer your second question, yes, Avidyne will provide upgrade paths to not only add ADS-B In to your TAS system, but we will also be providing a means for owners to upgrade to higher performing systems at the same time.  Right now, customers can upgrade a TAS600 to a TAS615.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2011 at 1:50am
What physical avionics component will I have to install in my aircraft to transmit ADS-B OUT (UAT)? I was thinking that all ADS-B OUT would be transmitted by the Transponder (either Mode C or Mode S), but it sounds now like I will need an additional piece of equipment for UAT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingLester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 5:28pm
John,

You have two choices for ADS-B out if you fly below FL180 in the US: UAT or 1090ES.  

First, you could do UAT.  With UAT, you would need a WAAS GPS position source and a UAT transmitter or transceiver box.  This UAT box could either be connected through an antenna coupler to your existing transponder antenna or you could install a new antenna for UAT.  If you went with UAT, no changes would be required to your Mode-C or Mode-S transponder.  

The second choice is 1090 MHz Extended Squitter (1090ES).  The FAA is requiring 1090ES above FL180 and a few other countries are considering mandating 1090ES in certain airspace.  1090ES transmitters must be part of a Mode-S transponder and can reuse your existing transponder antenna.   So to equip with 1090ES you would need a WAAS GPS position source and a new or upgraded Mode-S transponder to replace your existing transponder.  This may be a simpler installation than UAT.

In either case, the market has yet to develop for options, so it is a little early to pick once choice since prices are likely to come down as more competition enters the market over the next few years.

Hopefully this answers your question.

-Ted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 6:21am
Ted,

I would like to just make a comment. I think I'm like most owner/operators out there and I will not upgrade to ADSB-out until absolutely have to; or if I experience an equipment failure before 2020.  This is because I don’t get any increase functionality for the increase cost. Then when I do upgrade, I'll be looking what gives me the most useful information in the cockpit.  Even though traffic avoidance will increase the level of safety, I would consider that more of a nice to have and I would prioritize FIS-B (weather) information higher than traffic avoidance for usefulness. Weather in the cockpit will change my behavior more than anything else.  If I could get weather on my GPS navigator (540), I might upgrade earlier than the mandate.

 
 

Tony



Edited by tony - 09 Dec 2011 at 6:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingLester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 10:20am
Thanks for your comment Tony.  We are considering a few different ways to get FIS-B weather in the cockpit.  The FAA is providing the FIS-B service as an incentive for people to equip with ADS-B Out sooner than the mandate, and as you state, providing weather in the cockpit at a reasonable price may change owners' behavior.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote etrehus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 3:34pm
Hi Ted,

Any update on the availability of the ADSB upgrade?
Will there be any way to determine if the target is received via ADSB or Legacy?

Eric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lsctommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 7:15pm
What is the current developmental status of the ads-b upgrade program for the TAS 600?
I signed up when the $2,000.00 program upgrade was first offered and have not heard a peep
from Avidyne regarding progress to this end. Please advise.

Tom Cooke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 9:08am
Avidyne expects to begin shipping upgrades early in Q1 2013, at which time, the $2K will be owed.  In addition to working hard to complete the development of the TAS ADS-B upgrade, Avidyne is also playing a key role in developing the standards for ADS-B traffic alerting systems.  Our active presence in the standards development community helps us to assure that the upgrades we offer our customers will meet their expectations for long-term compatibility with the next generation of surveillance technology.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SB Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 2:24pm
Is Avidyne planning on developing an ADS-B transceiver (such as the GDL 88) that will work with the IFD 540?
 
I realize that is not as beneficial as an active traffic solution with ADS-B but my avionics budget has been spent on the IFD 540.
 
I would really like to be able to take advantage of the large display of the IFD 540 for the traffic and weather available via ADS-B.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 5:20pm
Avidyne considers ADS-B an essential part of the next generation airspace and plans to support ADS-B technology in a major way, including the ability to display ADS-B traffic and weather data on the IFD540 and IFD440 products.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awful Charlie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2014 at 8:13pm
Any update on how this is getting on yet? I've subscribed to the upgrade some time ago, but it's all been very quiet for a while ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 7:47am
It had slowed down a little while we focused on IFD540 but the team is piling back on this project now that they are coming off of IFD540.

I think you should plan on a late Q4 2014 availability for the TAS-A.
S. Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awful Charlie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 3:43pm
Thanks - that will fit for me, being a 'Month 7' for a 540/440, so that should be the 'in' sorted.  Looking forward the news in the interim what can be done with a 330ES for the 'out' part
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 12:05am
So, to be clear, the FAQ above says: "ADS-B In support in the TAS will allow the TAS to receive ADS-B information from 1090-ES equipped ADS-B Out aircraft."

Does this mean that it does not support 1090-ES reception from the ADS-R rebroadcasts when in range of a ground station?

Let's assume that my aircraft has Aspen Evolution PFD/MFD displays.  (This is a safe assumption... ;-))  Is there any benefit to purchasing this upgrade compared to something like Aspen's ARX-100, which receives on both UAT and 1090-ES bands, and provides both traffic and all of the other FIS-B data from the ground stations?  For example, assuming that I had an Avidyne TAS system and that ARX-100 receiver, will there be issues with duplicate traffic targets or the like?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 8:40am
Mike,

Have a look at the short thread, two "below" ...

http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=377&title=tas60xa-adsb-question

I posed the identical question, and the answer is yes, it will recept ADS-R as well. If getting a TAS unit, you want the A upgrade. 

For traffic, it eliminates the need for a ARX type unit, with the proviso that you are ADS-B out on 1090 already, such as with the 340. The only thing you would be missing is air to air 978 traffic out as ADS data, if it didn't make it to/from a ground station rebroadcast, as the TAS unit is 1090 only. But, the beauty is, you would have them anyway because you have their Mode C squawk.

This is one cool unit. Of course the A is not shipping yet, but with the 605 and up the A is a free upgrade when it becomes available. The base 600, the A function is a $2000 upgrade.

A UAT transceiver will provide FIS-B as well, but I use XM for weather, so that is not a consideration for me.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 03 Jun 2014 at 8:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 6:50pm
Orest, thanks for that!  Perhaps somebody should update that FAQ entry to clarify it.

I guess my question could be re-stated like this: the Aspen ARX-100 has an MSRP of $1695, which makes it slightly less expensive than the -A upgrade to the TAS unit.  It will receive all the same ADS-B data that the TAS unit will receive, plus direct reception of UAT data, plus FIS-B.

So, what is the advantage of doing the -A upgrade instead?  If the answer there is that having the traffic information all going through the TAS unit means that I will get superior traffic display and better handling of any possible duplicate targets or the like, then that's a great answer and would sway me towards the -A upgrade, especially since I have satellite datalink for weather already.

You and I have very similar avionics, it sounds like.  I also have Aspen displays, and I am eagerly awaiting my IFD-540.  I also have a TAS-605 and Aspen's datalink receiver, and Aspen's Connected Panel (for which I will be eagerly awaiting a compatibility update to the IFD-540).

My airplane has a service ceiling above 18,000 feet, so I believe I have to go the 1090-ES route for ADS-B out.  It's too bad that the Avidyne transponder is not a slide-in replacement for the Garmin GTX-327 I already have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 7:08pm
I was previously planning an ARX type upgrade, and leaving the 330 "plain" with TIS in place, but instead decided on the TAS605 route, with an eventual upgrade to the 605A. I had been thinking about active traffic anyway, but the TIS-B integration sold me.

Quote  If the answer there is that having the traffic information all going through the TAS unit means that I will get superior traffic display and better handling of any possible duplicate targets or the like,

Yes, that is precisely the benefit.

The TAS60x units will benefit most folks, TIS-B is not going to be available everywhere, and for me in particular (in Canada) it will be absent altogether except higher up near the border.

If you will be flying in the FLs, then you will indeed be required to be 1090 out, a UAT won't cut it. Although the 340 is not a slide in replacement for a 327/330, in speaking to my avionics shop, they said the tray rerigging is pretty straightforward, just punching down new connections to the wiring.

As far as FIS-B, kind of cool, and I do most of my flying in US airspace, but as I say I am not going to give up my XM weather, so it is neither here nor there. Not much of a factor for me.

* Orest


Edited by oskrypuch - 03 Jun 2014 at 7:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 2:51am
I'm not questioning whether having active traffic is a benefit compared to just ADS-B traffic, at least at this point.  It seems that the FAA has created a system that really has some big gaps, since it's possible to have two perfectly ADS-B In and Out compliant aircraft flying right next to each other that can't see each other on ADS-B without the assistance of a ground station.  (One may have a UAT while the other has a 1090-ES transponder and a TAS-605A!)  I've heard enough "TIS not available" warnings in rental G1000 airplanes that I'm skeptical of ground infrastructure for stuff like this.

The question in my mind is whether, on an airplane that already has a TAS-605, you get better traffic results by upgrading to a TAS-605A rather than using something like the ARX-100 in combination with the TAS-605.

Consider: the ARX-100 receives both 1090-ES and UAT frequencies, so in that two-airplane scenario I described above, if you have the ARX-100 in one plane, it doesn't matter which ADS-B Out technology the other airplane is equipped with, the ARX-equipped plane will see it, even if the ground station isn't available.

Of course, if one of the planes had a TAS-605A, and the other airplane has a UAT, the TAS-equipped airplane will see the UAT-equipped one via TAS.  The only downside is that it won't get the precise GPS position.

What would be annoying is if you had a regular TAS-605 and an ARX-100, and you ended up with double traffic returns for ADS-B aircraft.  Is that a likely outcome if you have a TAS-605 plus a separate ADS-B receiver?  I can understand how the TAS-605A could have logic to figure out that a TAS contact and an ADS-B contact that it sees are the same aircraft, but I have no idea if other avionics like the Aspen or the IFD-540 could do the same when getting traffic from those two sources...

It seems that there's no way to equip one's airplane so that all ADS-B In aircraft can see it air-to-air.  You can't have both 1090-ES and UAT out, can you?

Any comments from the Avidyne folks?


Edited by MikeK - 04 Jun 2014 at 3:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 1:15pm
You’re understanding of the technologies and their limitations is excellent.  The scenarios you describe have interested Avidyne as well.  I would bring to your attention one additional scenario; not all aircraft will be required to equip with ADS-B Out.  While the mandate makes ADS-B Out equipage compulsory for most aircraft, there will be aircraft that do not operate in airspace that will require equipage.  For operators frequenting small rural airports or other non-mandated airspace, a system that actively interrogates the intruder transponder will provide the greatest possible protection since ADS-B equipage and TIS-B service availability will not cause the system to miss traffic.

To answer your last question; a single aircraft is not permitted to broadcast its position on both the 1090ES and UAT link.

I appreciate your keen insight.  Avidyne continues to develop leading edge products, so even though we have announced the continuance of our active surveillance product line with the addition of ADS-B In over the 1090ES link, it should not be assumed that this is the sum total of our surveillance roadmap.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 1:41pm
Thanks, Dean.  Of course, in those rural areas, the airplanes may not have Mode C either!

Any insight you can share as to the expected experience if an airplane were to equip with a TAS-605 plus some other ADS-B receiver?  Would you expect that there would be target duplication on the display(s)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 2:30pm
Target duplication with two installed traffic systems would become the norm as ADS-B Out equipage reaches completion, because you would expect that most aircraft would be detected by both systems.  Traffic displays will only permit you to view one source of traffic at a time, and audible announcements might overlap and become garbled or confusing.  My suspicion is that the pilot experience with two different traffic systems installed would be less than satisfactory.

I just realized that your experience with the "TIS not available" warnings may have been for the older TIS system that can be found in many transponders.  The TIS system is very different from the newer TIS-B system.  Avidyne performed significant flight testing of an ADS-B In traffic solution with the FAA last year and we found that, while not perfect, the TIS-B system was actually pretty good.  Reception on the ground was poor as you would expect, but loss of the TIS-B service at pattern altitude and above was fairly rare.  Likewise, the ADS-R solution that bridges the UAT and 1090ES gap was not bad.  Directly received ADS-B data is better, but the ground solutions held their own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2014 at 1:21am
It seems like a silly technology.

Go figure .. Allmost all aircraft are equipped with a transponder. How hard can it be to just have that transponder transmit who he is, call sign & aircraft type, flightlevel, speed and heading.

Nowadays boats have this technology as well. It is called ais and it has made radar completely obsolete. A receiver will cost something like 400 usd while a transponder will cost 700 to 800 usd. You caneven view everything on a ipad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2014 at 7:48am
The difference is the FAA is not involved in boating.

If it were the equipment you describe would cost $20K.  It would need to be installed by a certificated marine technician.  An engine for a small boat would cost $40K.  And the boat would be filled with waterproof paperwork that must be there or it wouldn't be seaworthy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2014 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by dryan dryan wrote:

Traffic displays will only permit you to view one source of traffic at a time

Aha!  This was the crucial missing piece in my understanding.  That, of course, makes the -A upgrade for my TAS-605 the slam-dunk choice for ADS-B traffic reception.  I hope that part of that remaining surveillance roadmap includes some solution for air to air UAT reception, as well as FIS-B in (although I suspect I will continue to prefer satellite datalink at least for now).

Originally posted by dryan dryan wrote:

I just realized that your experience with the "TIS not available" warnings may have been for the older TIS system that can be found in many transponders.
Yup, definitely, and I realize that the systems are different.  But I just think it illustrates the sort of trouble that you can have, especially flying where terrain may be a factor in reception of ground stations.  I'm not sure where you flew in your testing with the FAA, but as an example, if you go flying in the Bay Area and cross over the hills to the coast, you typically lose TIS.  I don't know if TIS-B would perform better here or not, but it's a pretty area and there's a fair amount of air traffic, so it's a prime example of where good air-to-air detection independent of ground infrastructure would really be welcome.


Edited by MikeK - 05 Jun 2014 at 8:10pm
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