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G3X, GFC 500 and an IFD 540

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Shawn26 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 4:01pm
i already instilled Gamin G5 HSI last year, changing it to Dynon Skyview HDX requires D10. I know Dynon is working to get their autopilot certified for Mooney but GFC 500 is what i want to go with. I know Dynon DHX is cheaper vs G3X. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

There is no „issue“ with the VNAV function. It is a function of the navigator, not the G5/GFC500. The IFD series is a GNS replacement, with additional functions unique to Avidyne. It is NOT and has never been advertised as fully compatible with GTN functions. The VNAV function is new with the GTN, and is not available with the GNS (and won’t ever be) or IFD (yet). Avidyne might conceivably add it at some time, but have so far announced no plans to do so. 


Would you know if the TOGA button ( Go Around on GFC 500 ) works on the missed approach?  Thanks 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Froethel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 7:17pm
it does...I've had one installed for about 2 years.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmtidler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by Shawn26 Shawn26 wrote:

Would you know if the TOGA button ( Go Around on GFC 500 ) works on the missed approach?  Thanks 
It works well for my dual G5, GFC 500, IFD540 equipped airplane. When activated airborne, the go around button puts the flight director and autopilot, if engaged, in the go around mode and annunciates GA for both roll (wings level) and pitch (7 degrees nose up in my airplane). When activated on the ground, the go around button puts the flight director in takeoff mode and annunciates TO for both roll (wings level) and pitch (7 degrees nose up in my airplane). 

Aircraft specific specs and procedures for GFC 500 approved aircraft can be found in the aircraft specific GFC 500 Flight Manual Supplement; downloadable on the Garmin website.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 11:26am
Following an in-depth conversation with Avidyne tech just now - if you (or the shop that says the installation of a GFC 500 isn't approved) follow the paperwork already in existence and approved, the GFC 500 with Dual G5s and an Avidyne IFD is legal. Remember that the IFD is an approved feature-for-feature slide in replacement for a 430/530 which is already approved as a device capable and approved of working with the GFC 500. 

The logic is "If A works with B, and B works with C, then A works with C". Since the Avidyne works with the G5 and is approved for that in Avidyne's documentation, and since ALL the autopilot control comes from the G5 because it processes the signals from the navigator (whether it is a Garmin or Avidyne), then the addition of a GFC 500 is approved since it doesn't need any interfacing with the Avidyne itself. Everything is processed with Garmin devices - G5, GAD29 or 29B, GMU, etc., etc.

I can tell you that my Avidyne 540, dual G5s, GFC500, OAT probe system performs flawlessly - and has for nearly a year performing all the approaches and features as it is supposed to. VNAV is not part of this package - the GNS 430/530 did not provide that data stream originally, so the IFD was not made to do that, either. To add that feature via the IFDs would require additional FAA approval. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 4:40pm
I am not sure of the G5 but according to Avidyne if the combo is an IFD with the GI275, then the GFC500 would not be a legal installation.  The GI275 specifically requires a Garmin GPS source and the internal one is advisory only and doesn’t quality.  Avidyne says the argument that if A works with B and B works with C then A and C are legal doesn’t work.  This is the reply I got from Avidyne on the Gi275, IFD and GFC 500 combo. 

<<< The GI-275 is not listed in our IM. I am unable to track down an IM for the GI-275 and I looked at MooneySpace.com and Beechtalk both came up empty. As for getting a field approval for an autopilot installation I have doubts that most FSDO inspectors are capable or confident enough to do so. If in fact the GI-275 STC requires a Garmin GPS source I don't see a way clear that an installer could provide documentation to support a field approval for the GI275, Avidyne IFD, GFC500 combo.>>>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:24am
I’m in the process of a dual G5 and GFC500 autopilot in my Bonanza. The install shop discussed my options - G5, GI275, G3X, and G500txi and had no issue installing any of them. In the end, I went with simple as I’m still hopeful Avidyne will produce a PFD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:34am
it’s so strange there are differing viewpoints.  I’d really like to put in the GFC500 as it was just STCd for the Trinidad’s but our user group and Avidyne is saying “no way” with Avidyne GPS. What shop did you use? I’m pretty sure we have used the same shop in the past? You can message me if you’d rather not post it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 4:38pm
I’m using a new shop this time - Green Mountain Avionics in Middlebury VT (6B0). I really like the time and care they have taken to work through the details.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 4:58pm
you will LOVE them.  A friend of mine starting using them recently and they are extremely accommodating and professional. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 6:37am
I don’t know why this is so difficult with the G5 since it is fully supported by the Avidyne install manual as a listed interface.  The G5 is the autopilot “brains” and uses standard communication data streams.  Further, since the IFDs are a direct replacement for the GNS navigators there is legal basis for it to work with the GFC500 autopilot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 8:09am
I think it’s because the GFC500 STC states it must be a Garmin GPS. The fact the IFD is a direct replacement does satisfy the STC requirement.  It may be different with the G5 but this is what I’m being told with the GI275. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 8:14am
Agree with you on the GI275s.  Technically, they use the same input/output data streams as the G5, however, the Install Manual on either side has not been updated to include each other's interfaces.

Here is where Avidyne can help by adding the various PFDs to the installation manual as well as the G500 autopilot.  As long as there is not an Avidyne solution (PFD and Autopilot), there needs to be a way to use commonly available equipment in the market.  It seems, either you are an all in one (Garmin) company, or a company that is built around successful interfaces to 3rd party equipment.  You have to be one or the other to be successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by teeth6 teeth6 wrote:

I think it’s because the GFC500 STC states it must be a Garmin GPS. The fact the IFD is a direct replacement does satisfy the STC requirement.  It may be different with the G5 but this is what I’m being told with the GI275. 

Do you have a copy of that statement? I can't find anywhere in the GFC500 STC that mentions a GPS let alone that it must be a Garmin GPS. I just see the concurrent requirement for G5 or G3X STCs. However, the STC published on the FAA web site might be out of date, since it also doesn't mention the GI275.
Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 11:23am
My PA32 with dual G5's and an IFD550 is in the shop right now for the GFC500. Also installing the GAD 13 for TAS and OAT.

Kinda disappointed that VNAV control via the GFC500 isn't available with this combo but I'm still happy with the upgrade.
Brent

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IFD550 / AXP322 / SkyTrax100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 12:37pm
I don’t have a copy but copied below was the discussion on my user group concerning the use of a GI275 which was a legal install.  With that being said, it sure seems like many shops are installing the GFC500 with planes having the IFDs and GI275s or G5’s.  I guess the shops don’t see an issue with it. Can someone confirm that we would lose the VNAV function if switching to the GFC500?


<<<The GFC500 STC requires that the attitude source (GI-275) used by the GFC500 be installed in accordance with the GI-275 STC. That calls out a Garmin GPS. Once you add a non-Garmin GPS into the mix the GI-275 is no longer installed in accordance with the Garmin STC (its installed in accordance with the field approval).

This means a "follow-on" approval based on an existing GI-275 installation (even if that specific installation was correctly field approved) will not fly in my view (and I believe the view of the FAA).

Avidyne will need to resolve this since the FAA does not typically accept field approvals involving autopilot installations (I'm not aware of a single case where they have outside of the warbird world).

The only way I see for this (GFC500 installation with an Avidyne GPS) to be legal is for Avidyne to do the work to add the GFC500 and the GI-275 to their STC. I don't believe the "well it (the IFD540) emulates a 530" will fly in this case.>>>



Edited by teeth6 - 07 Apr 2021 at 12:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 3:45pm
This link is previous discussion on this topic on this site. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 1:38pm
Gring, it appears the issue is with the GI275 with the GFC500 and IFDs.   I got this from the same shop you went to (I did not mention you at all) but the GFC500 would not be a legal installation in my plane with the GI275.  The other reply is from a separate shop. They are in agreement that the IFDs with the GI275 is not a legal install with the GFC500. 

<<
Unfortunately at this point there is no STC approval to interface the Avidyne IFD's to the GI-275.
Functionally the interface will work so I expect it to be added either to the GI-275 STC Installation Manual or the Avidyne IFD STC Installation Manual at some point in the future.
There are other Avidyne users interested in GI-275 installation so hopefully sooner than later.>>

<< Unfortunately, you are correct.  No field approvals on Autopilots.  You’d have to replace one of the IFDs with a GARMIN GTNx50 or legacy GNSx30W.>>



Edited by teeth6 - 08 Apr 2021 at 7:27pm
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