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New MLB100 978 MHz ADS-B In Receiver
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glassanza View Drop Down
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Points: 98 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2015 at 4:07pm
Steve I am about to purchase a MLB100 for my dual 540 340 240 install and just want to make sure we are clear on what I should ultimately the unit to provide. From you previous response to SB Jim:

1. Provide an aural traffic alert - Is this something Avidyne is thinking about or is it going to happen.
2. Will ADS-B icons and information (GS, direction arrowhead, color coding N-Number) be displayed on my 540 or just TAS boxes with altitude difference and trend
3. If it did not make Release 10.1.0.0 then when.

1.  Yes, that's the plan.
2.  Yes, BUT......the FAA did not like our implementation of the traffic icons so we had to pull that part out of Release 10.1.0.0.  We will be adding it pronto after 10.1 and the 440 are released.
3.  Yes, that's included in Release 10.1.0.0.


Edited by glassanza - 02 Nov 2015 at 4:35pm
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1.  Yes, that's still the plan.  The Release 10.1.1.0 software of the IFD540/440 does not contain an aural alert for the MLB100 sourced traffic alerts (TA) but we definitely want to add that in a future IFD release.  It will be extremely helpful.

2.  IFD540/440 Release 10.1.1.0 does support standard TAS symbology for ADS-B traffic - that was faster to get the software done and approved by the FAA.  We will definitely add the new ADS-B traffic symbology in a future release.    We're almost required to do so which means that won't get deferred indefinitely.

3.  The ADS-B traffic was actually included in Release 10.1.0.0 but we had to disable it via a special software trick.  That has been re-enabled now as part of 10.1.1.0 and is usable now.  (Technically, it's independent of 10.1.1.0 but I need to fill my mouth up with marbles to accurately explain the gory details).

BTW, on/about 3 Nov, we're releasing a new version of the MLB100 software called Release 4.0.8.  This addresses two issues in previous MLB100 software and we STRONGLY encourage all MLB100 customers to upgrade at the earliest opportunity.  We'll send out a separate eBulletin on that topic to all customers and dealers in the next day or three.
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Question: hopefully the answer is simple because the marbles aren't very good for your teeth. Why is the ADSB traffic symbology different from TAS symbology? From a user perspective, do I care the source of the traffic?   If I have the TAS/A, will I also have two sets of symbols?
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Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Why is the ADSB traffic symbology different from TAS symbology?
  Good question!  I am interested to see what Steve and Simpson say in response.  To me, I think it just reflects the 20 years of experience and improvement in human factors and software capability between the common use of TCAS (1990's) and the early use of ADS-B (2010's).
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

From a user perspective, do I care the source of the traffic? 
  Another good question, with a much simpler answer: No.  
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

If I have the TAS/A, will I also have two sets of symbols?
I would hope not, since they would (should) be in the same locations, but this also is a question that the insiders would have to answer for us.  I thought I read somewhere that an IFD would only process traffic from one source as determined by the Config screens and wiring hook-up.

David Bunin

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Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Why is the ADSB traffic symbology different from TAS symbology?
  Good question!  I am interested to see what Steve and Simpson say in response.  To me, I think it just reflects the 20 years of experience and improvement in human factors and software capability between the common use of TCAS (1990's) and the early use of ADS-B (2010's).
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

From a user perspective, do I care the source of the traffic? 
  Another good question, with a much simpler answer: No.  
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

If I have the TAS/A, will I also have two sets of symbols?
I would hope not, since they would (should) be in the same locations, but this also is a question that the insiders would have to answer for us.  I thought I read somewhere that an IFD would only process traffic from one source as determined by the Config screens and wiring hook-up.

David Bunin


I think its because this thing came out and created issues:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC20-172B.pdf




Edited by tony - 03 Nov 2015 at 12:01pm
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Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Why is the ADSB traffic symbology different from TAS symbology?
  Good question!  I am interested to see what Steve and Simpson say in response.  To me, I think it just reflects the 20 years of experience and improvement in human factors and software capability between the common use of TCAS (1990's) and the early use of ADS-B (2010's).

Dug it up because I wanted to see when it last changed and what they are supposed to look like.
From what I can tell
AC 20-172 (Appendix 2) 11 Jan 2011
AC 20-172A (Appendix 2) 23 Mar 2012
AC 20-172B (Appendix B) 20 May 2015 is current
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC20-172B.pdf

I can't wait to see the surface symbols: boats and cars on the IFD :)  Also they don't look like they've really changed since 2011, but they don't look like symbols I'm seeing others use either which I think is odd.

Can the MLB/IFD do Designated Traffic (page 31)? Not sure how that is handled by ATC or others, but that looks like a neat feature.



Edited by roltman - 03 Nov 2015 at 9:57am
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Ok, so that document answers my question.  The symbols are different because they updated them for ADSB and have more differentiation than with the older TAS/TCAD symbols.  I think we'll need a legend just to figure it out now.  It use to be cyan, yellow, and red.  Now it looks like different shapes for different things.  Ahhh, progress.
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Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Ok, so that document answers my question.  The symbols are different because they updated them for ADSB and have more differentiation than with the older TAS/TCAD symbols.  I think we'll need a legend just to figure it out now.  It use to be cyan, yellow, and red.  Now it looks like different shapes for different things.  Ahhh, progress.


Those symbols haven't really changed since 2011 if you look back through the older documents; however, all the new devices like the Lynx transponder and even ForeFlight seem to be using a different style symbol yet.  Maybe it's just the velocity vector coming out of the directional symbols. 

Will the velocity vectors be added when the symbols are fixed or is that further down the road?


Edited by roltman - 03 Nov 2015 at 10:09am
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A new SIL has been issued for the MLB100. Information regarding the SIL can be found here: http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads/mlb100.asp
Simpson Bennett
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Steve,
I see the announced mandatory SB on the MLB100 in today's email...

Hopefully this will correct the C.B. re-cycling sequence problem between the 540 and MLB.

.  The MLB still doesn't appear to get the TFR's.  When can we hope to receive TFR's in the FIS-B broadcast received by the MLB? 

.  Also, any idea on release of 540 v10.1.1? I am looking forward to the Audio Panel attenuation of Standby-Monitor.

Tom Wolf
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Originally posted by n7ifr n7ifr wrote:

Hopefully this will correct the C.B. re-cycling sequence problem between the 540 and MLB.

It does.  If you have MLB software version 4.0.8 then you won't need the power-cycle technique anymore.

Originally posted by n7ifr n7ifr wrote:

The MLB still doesn't appear to get the TFR's.  When can we hope to receive TFR's in the FIS-B broadcast received by the MLB? 

My understanding is that this was an IFD issue, not an MLB issue.  But I am not absolutely certain of that.

David Bunin



Edited by DavidBunin - 04 Nov 2015 at 10:15am
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I finally got out to test fly with the latest MLB100 firmware and no power cycle was required for it to communicate with the IFDs.  [Good News]  Also, I saw traffic and, though it jumps around a bit compared to the same info from a stratus, it is in roughly the right places as the few actual planes I saw. [More Good News]

I'm still seeing frequent yellow Traffic Sensor Faults on the IFDs. So, the faults and the jumpy traffic appear to be the remaining issues of note.  I need to go back out with a safety pilot to capture stratus traffic vs. MLB100 traffic on video so we can see if the problem is real or perceived.
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The fault annunciation logic is not clear to me.  I have seen those faults appear (and persist) even while both traffic and weather data are being presented to me on the IFD.

There are three distinct faults that I have observed:
The first is a Datalink Fail (which indicates loss of RS-232 serial data weather information from the MLB).
The second is a Traffic Sensor Fault (which indicates loss of ARINC 429 traffic data from the MLB).
The third is No ARINC 429 Data (which indicates loss of all 429 communication from the MLB).

Usually if the 429 data is lost, then I don't get anything from the MLB.  For the first two indications, I might still get the data even though the IFD says I won't.

(I know that this information doesn't help solve the problem yet, but more data can't hurt.)

David Bunin



Edited by DavidBunin - 15 Nov 2015 at 1:03pm
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Had a new issue not seen here.  Earlier this year I installed an IFD-540 and and AXP-340 X-Ponder.  Had a few issues with the IFD-540 that the SW patch that removed the AD fixed.  On Nov 7th we installed the MLB-100.  When I took off ATC said I was showing 64,000 feet and reminded me that although a Skylane is a neat airplane he doubted that I was at 64,000 plus feet.  Could not troubleshoot it very well on the ground.  After calls to tech support they said it was a SW glitch and that whenever the pressure altitude is below sea level it sends false info to the encoder.  The shop shut of the port to the AXP-340 and everything seemed normal.  However on the trip back, about 2 miles from my home airport, ATC lost my X-Ponder signal for about 4 mins and then it came back.  I also checked the flight on Flight-Aware and it did not show any ADS-B data.  Flight over to the shop showed it fine before the MLP-100 install.  Anyone else have this issue?  Will fly again next week to see if ADS-B is disabled becasue of the MLB-100 install.

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Yes, it seems to be a known issue when the MLB is installed and the reported pressure altitude is negative it causes this issue with APX and the GPS and then I think only if serial connections are used.  If grey codes are used then only the GPS is dorked up.
The 340 will report 64285 and the GPS will have some pressure altitude of 130k.

While I have reported this to several people at Avidyne nearly a month ago with no response, I do know my avionics shop has been told Avidyne knows what the problem is.  I'm not sure if 10.1.1.0 will fix it or if it is the MLB100 which should have yet another update out shortly.

It really hasn't caused me problems until last week where a big "H" was over the area and I'd have this issue to nearly 500AGL.


Edited by roltman - 19 Nov 2015 at 2:23pm
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