IFD540 Certification Status |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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G tends not to announce products before they are in the channel, so you will never have any idea of their development cycle. I know one fellow that bought and installed a brand new 430W and 696, one month before the 650 & 796 were released. He was mighty unhappy. Even the dealer had no inkling of what was coming.
Actually a lot of detail about development, staging and certification has been given out in these forums over the last number of months. While we'd all like it released "yesterday", things are moving, it is in the end game now.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 25 Sep 2013 at 1:15pm |
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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These delays are not unusual when associated with a development, add to that a certifying agency that's staffed with a bunch of people who couldn't make it in industry and who like to add their own personal touch. What is unusual is the transparency being demonstrated by Avidyne.
Edited by tony - 25 Sep 2013 at 7:33pm |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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... and also very refreshing! * Orest |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Wow, I'm glad it took me 12ish hours to look at the last day's of posts. I couldn't have presented a better case than the last 4!
I know it may be hard to see the progress from the outside but we've made gobs of progress this year. If anyone on this forum finds themselves in Lincoln MA anytime this fall, send me a note and we can arrange for you to swing by and see a snap shot of the endgame for yourself and comment as you see fit. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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jperryfly
Newbie Joined: 15 Apr 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Careful Steve I can still fly for free. You might get takers on that invite!!
John
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John Perry
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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No problem. The offer is real. Already have a few takers and happy with more.
Our factory and larger facility is in Florida but I'm at the Massachusetts office and we have a full lab and a number of project engineers up here.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Paul
Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Is this offer only good during regular Mon-Fri business hours?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Yes, M-F.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Paul
Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Darn. I have to work then. Otherwise I couldn't afford the airplane, much less the new avionics.
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Paul
Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I know you've stopped speculating, but the FAA furloughs are probably not something you planned for. How will they affect certification?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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If it continues, it will have a very significant impact. All cert activities have been completely halted by the FAA at this time. Here is an industry summary:
It appears to
be increasingly likely that a Congressional budget impasse may result in a
partial government shutdown which will significantly impact FAA (with the exception
of air traffic services) and essentially halt all activities
performed by the office of Aviation Safety which includes Aircraft
Certification Service (AIR) and Flight Standards (AFS). The FAA
portion of a Department of Transportation plan on "operations during a
lapse in annual appropriations" which provides provisions regarding the
shutdown is attached for your information (the complete report is available at http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/DOT%202014%20Plan%20for%20Approp%20Lapse.pdf)
The plan calls for the FAA office of aviation safety (AVS) to temporarily
reduce its workforce from approximately 7,400 to just 310. I attended a
meeting with FAA today where we were given more specific information on AIR and
AFS plans. Only those staff who perform tasks essential to“life and
property” would be excepted from a shutdown furlough. Essentially,
Aircraft Certification would operate with approximately 100 employees and
Flight Standards with 200 employees system-wide. This is basically enough
people to keep the lights on and ensure that FAA can respond to any safety
issue that may occur and call-in additional staff as necessary. Type
certification activities requiring FAA direct involvement will come to a
complete halt with the exception of emergency ADs. No FAA personnel will
be able to support certification activities to include processing of
applications, approval of certification plans, meetings/response
to applicants/industry, and issuance of approvals/certificates (including
airworthiness certificates). Although the plan mentions that FAA would
bring back additional parts of the aviation safety workforce after 2-weeks to
better manage safety risk, this would be limited to certificate management
safety oversight and COS activities and not include any type
certification. Previously approved certification plans and properly
authorized delegation activities can continue as normal so long as direct FAA
involvement is not necessary (i.e. approval, witness, etc). We will keep
you apprised of any developments or changes in policy related to the impact
this budget impasse has upon FAA's aircraft certification service and support
for your type certification activities. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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TogaDriver
Senior Member Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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Our tax dollars at work... or... not.
Since Garmin's 330-ES won't play ball, how about King's new KT-74? I assume the IFD's, being good open-source players in the market, will cooperate with the KT-74 to supply it ADS-B GPS position info? |
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Worst case the latest governmental debocal gives you guys to time to fine tune what has to be done to get the 540's out early 2014. I really appreciate your courage making this forum available to buyers and the public alike which enables us to have a glimse of the developmental process required to get a product like this into our airplanes. The unfortunate side to the open access is deadlines that are not met , many of which are not in your control, which ultimately leads to a lack of confidence as the calander clicks off month after month. As a person in sales I must say that Steve is a person I admire, almost always positive and willing to take the heat when things don't go as planned. The reality is that we are about to get some of the coolest technology available to GA in a long time. I think I'll stick it out a few more months to take advantage of it. No more complaining from me, just get it done and let me know when my 540 is ready to ship!!!
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GDC25
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Paul
Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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We all believe the folks at Avidyne are nice guys and that they would not shut down the government just to give themselves a little time to fix a few bugs.
Hopefully this will be over soon. |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Reference TogaDriver's KT74 question - we're not sure yet. It's actually a Trig transponder and we *think* we understand the protocols but we haven't become 100% confident yet.
Reference Glassanza's vote of confidence - thank you. We really appreciate the willingness to stick it out and agree that this unit is a great product (and worth the wait). Reference Paul's shut down note - we too hope this will be over soon. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Wurtzy
Newbie Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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this 1fd540 is becoming a real problem with potential users Because of UNREALISTIC CONSISTANT claims about certification.
this is an embarrassment to the company.. and this company will suffer the consequences. they should do more to keep the ifd 540 customers more in the loop. as I am not a customer, my heart goes out to the people who have put their money into this never ending money hole. I hope that they don't delay into 2015 |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Hello Wurtzy,
I love and share your enthusiasm. I also appreciate your concern for the company and our current and future customers. You and others can keep checking back with this forum to always get the most up-to-date and accurate assessment of progress. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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BobsV35B
Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2011 Location: Downers Grove, Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Forgive me if this is a bit off topic. I am happy with the way Avidyne has performed, but I am very displeased with the degree of involvement by the FAA.
It seems to me that the only involvement of the FED should be as to whether or not the set meets safety of flight performance as would a panel light or a defroster fan. How the information is presented should NOT be an FAA evaluation. If Avidyne presents the data poorly, we consumers will let them know about it. While I am sure the FAA folks involved are fine gentlemen or women who really want to do a good job, they should NOT be interfering with what the market wishes to present to we customers. As long as the data presented meets the accuracy standards for navigation, the manner of that presentation should be up to the person trying to sell the box and we who may want to buy it. As is true of so much these days, the Nanny State is protecting us right out of the sky. What a sad state of affairs. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried For what it is worth, soloed in 1946 and been actively flying IFR since 1950.
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Old Bob, Ancient Aviator
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Wurtzy
Newbie Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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avidyne should have a better p/r department. the bad news will get worse as the delays lengthen.
the competitors will come up with better solutions as a the swaps out of the garmin 530 continue to increase. avidyne had it's chance but let it slip away with the ifd540 |
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Wurtzy
Newbie Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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if avidyne were on the ball like garmin, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD A DEMO UP ON THE INTERNET BY NOW.
GARMIN DID IT WITH THE 530., |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Wurtzy,
I don't know how big you think Avidyne is but I can assure you, there is no Public Relations Department here. I also don't know what bad news you think will get worse nor what you mean by lengthening delays but we continue to appreciate your passion. We're not posting the demo for downloads yet in case there is a feature or function that needs changing due to cert authority directive. We've been done with the product from a feature standpoint for months. We've been done with the downloadable trainer for months. We're unable or unwilling to distribute those until cert is closer and the chance of change is approximately zero.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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I have followed avidynelive.com pretty religiously now for a couple of years and have not seen a comment from wurtzy that I can recall. As someone with skin in the game, i.e. invested financially in the end result of the 540 program, I have to say to wurtzy if you are so convinced that Avidyne has screwed up just wait for Garmin to start selling you a plug and play replacement for the 530/430. The 750/650 series certainly is not, so just hang on another year or two for their product and let me know how that works out for you. Once again politically correct Steve, keep the focus where it belongs.
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GDC25
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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That being said, the last few comments sounded a lot like a Jeff Dunham puppet character that I love (google it if you don't know what I'm talking about) so if that's you Jeff, you crack me up...
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GDC25
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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It would be wonderful if you would be able to come up with an android trainer in the meantime. Hopefully it wouldn't be too tough since the apps run the tactical code.
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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Steve, you may not have a sign on your door that says so, but I think you (and the other Avidyne employees who occasionally post here on the forums) ARE the company's PR dept, and I personally think you guys do a pretty good job. A post here from an Avidyne employee is worth 1,000 press releases!
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Our plan is to provide an Android-based trainer at some point post-release but we're not actively working that right now. All hands are working to get the basic product certified and shipping.
The Mac (Ipad) and PC (touchscreen tablet) variants of the trainer are done and have been for a while. It's not clear when we'll re-attack the Android capable version. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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jblodgett
Groupie Joined: 24 Sep 2013 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Has the government shutdown completely shutdown your certification efforts or is there work going on in the background?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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See my 1 Oct post at 8:26pm. No change since that.
Avidyne has a ton of activity going on internally for cert but the FAA is completely shut down for all cert activities. That is not having any impact on IFD540 schedule yet. If it goes another week or so, then we'll start to be immediately impacted since that's about when we're ready to turn in our next wave of cert documents and artifacts. There is some likelihood that when the cert groups of the FAA come back to work, the backlog they will have generated during the shutdown may take a while to work off and therefore things will get delayed but that's just speculation on my part and not known until they're back and trying to service data or actions from us. |
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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are there other projects you can work on (like the IFD440) trying to bring that schedule to the left or will you begin furloughing Avidyne employees?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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We're all "essential" personnel here so no furloughs for us. We have plenty to do on IFD540 to keep us all busy during the FAA furloughs. If this drags out a few more weeks then we'll have to get creative on project workloads.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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This is what I meant by my android simulator comment. I know they mentioned before that they were going to work on one, but I was thinking if they had unexpected time due to the govt shutdown that they could work on that project. Maybe I'm biased because I had a deposit on the 540 before the 440 was announced, but I think it would be nice to have the 540 fully supported (including simulator) before diverting effort away towards the 440.
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Wurtzy
Newbie Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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What about the small Garmin 750. Cud that e a trade up?
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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It's been about a month since this update was posted. I know most of that time the FAA was shut down, but do you have anything new to share with us?
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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(IFD540 Cert Update - 21 Oct 2013):
#1 is done. #2 is 76% complete. Of course that is meaningless if you don't know the rate of closure or when we started. That number is ticking up at a rate of about 5% per week. Some weeks it's a lot higher and some weeks is notably lower. We have broken the cert artifacts up into hundreds of little individual jobs and it's those individual jobs that we have completed 76% of as of this past Friday. We're plugging away at #3 and #4 in parallel with #2. I will be all over AvidyneLive posting completion of #2, 3 and 4 the minute they're done. We have a lot riding on it and a lot of eager customers and watchers. (And as a side note, the FAA is still scrambling to get their hands around their backlog and we have not had any re-engagement yet on the 540 program from the cert office.)
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Wurtzy
Newbie Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Based on the forgoing ,the reality could be 2015 for potential customers who have not put down deposits.however the only replacement for the garmin 530 seems to be the 540 at this time.....if nobody can come up with same size replacement in the meantime..
If this avidyne is not out in the middle of next year, my honest opinion is that some smart competitor will be playing catch up ball. Good luck. Jw |
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TogaDriver
Senior Member Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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Tiny start-up companies do not have the resources to survive the FAA dodge-ball course. And, relatively speaking, at 29M revenues vs. Garmin's 1B I'd call Avidyne a small company.
The really small avionics companies are mostly doing Experimental stuff and avoiding the TSO nightmare. This is not an option for IFR GPS and Transponders.
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Airotto370
Newbie Joined: 18 Jun 2012 Location: Carmel, NY Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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We do have a substantial back log but I believe everyone who has pre-bought a unit or put a deposit down for one has a delivery month defined for them. It totally depends on the date on which the pre-buy/deposit was made.
How do we find out our defined delivery month? I made my deposit in Dec 2011 but haven't heard anything about this. Thanks in advance
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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If your deposit was that early, my guess would be that you'd be in the first month of shipments. I put a deposit down in Oct 2012, and I'm in the fourth month of production.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 22 Oct 2013 at 8:00pm |
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Airotto370
Newbie Joined: 18 Jun 2012 Location: Carmel, NY Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Thanks for the reply. However, does anyone know where to find the actual list? I had last spoken with an Avidyne person in January 2013 and he then predicted a June 2013 production date. In April I talked with an avionics shop owner, an Avidyne distributor/partner, while getting some work done and he told me June wasn't happening. Not an entirely unexpected result but I'd still like to know where I am on the list. Thanks again for any help.
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MysticCobra
Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 652 |
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Avidyne's not going to publish a list for public viewing. It's nobody else's business who or how many folks are buying.
Contact an Avidyne sales rep and ask. They'll tell you what production month you're in. What calendar date does that translate to? Nobody can know for sure yet when the units will go into full production. Follow this thread for Steve's (AviJake's) periodic updates to keep tabs on how things are going.
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Royski
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Look at your deposit agreement. Mine says "This offer is for IFD540’s available in the third month of full-rate production." |
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Airotto370
Newbie Joined: 18 Jun 2012 Location: Carmel, NY Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Ahhh, excellent! 2nd month. Thanks for that, appreciate the help.
Bill
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Cascade
Newbie Joined: 14 Aug 2013 Location: Eugene Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I am satisfied that Avidyne's good folks are doing all they can to navigate the certification process as efficiently as possible. And I am grateful to have been given the opportunity to make a speculative purchase of the hardware at a deep discount. But this talk of delivery slots (ours is the 5th month) has me reviewing expectations versus reality. In mid-2012, expectations were for certification in the 2012-13 wintertime, and deliveries in perhaps spring-summer of 2013. Current reality says certication may not come for another several months, then production ramp-up, then wait-your-turn for delivery. It is now looking like Christmas, 2014 for us. That would be 2-1/2 years after fronting the money and 1-1/2 years later than we hoped. So here is my suggestion (or my plea): If Avidyne can make it work from a business standpoint, it would be nice to compress the delivery schedules of the long-patient early adopters. That is, given the disappointing slippage in the roll-out schedule, if at all possible I would hope Avidyne could see its way clear to accelerate the deliveries for its loyal early purchasers / financeers who will have waited much longer than expected.
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Cascade
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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There ought to be some value added for money hold (and not using new generation equipment) for 2.5 years now; probably 6-12 months to go yet?
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David Gates
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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I agree with TogaDriver's comment that a small company doesn't have the resources to deliver TSO equipment in a short period of time. However, I have noticed several offers in the trade rags for some pretty cheap 750/650 trade in deals for 530W/430W equipment which include "standard installation" which is obviously the big unknown. So maybe big guy has decided to dangle a carrot out there to see if anyone is getting tired of waiting. On another note, I ran across a avionics guy at an airport I flew into today who was removing a bad Avidyne PFD from a Meridian I think and I told him I was on the list for two IFD 540's to replace my existing 530's. He recommended I trade in my 530W units for two 650's and sell my new 540's on Ebay when I get them to help offset the upgrade cost. Time yields options....
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GDC25
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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Going IFD540 to GTN650 (even two), is a big step down in function and capability. I suppose if you are really growing impatient, getting one 750 might make more sense, but even then you will be losing capability.
I have seen some Garmin ads with verbage including "waiting" and "rebates". They are reacting, I think they see a real competitor on the horizon.
* Orest |
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tony
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2011 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Steve, I keep reading over this list you posted last week and I do have a couple of questions. Has the ACO delegated approval authority to your DMIRs and DERs for the hardware and software qualifications, or do they only have recommend authority? I asked this because effectively there are only about six work weeks left for the year. December could be a very non productive month with a lot of the government guys being forced with use or loose vacation time.
If the answer is recommend, have you approached the ACO and asked for approval authority? You guys should have generated a level of trust with them by now. Tony
Edited by tony - 26 Oct 2013 at 7:09am |
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AviJake
Admin Group Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Lincoln MA Status: Offline Points: 2815 |
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Let me start with Cascade's 24 Oct post at 7:23 since it seems everything prior to that was resolved amongst yourselves.
Cascade is suggesting/plea-ing for a way to pull in delivery dates. Understood. We are evaluating options for doing just that. Until/unless we find a way, the delivery months stand as is in each individual pre-buy contract. However, I think we'll find a way. It's a very active topic inside Avidyne right now. ddgates is looking for some value added offer above/beyond what exists now. Understood and like above, we are evaluating options for doing just that. I'm optimistic so stand by for some potential good news on that front. glassanza is observing and commenting that time yields options and some others are recommending jumping ship. Understood the reality and the pressure. Of course that is your prerogative and may be your choice and yes, the 5000lb Garmin gorilla is trying to tempt people to jump with incentives and heavy duty marketing. From our perspective, much better things come for those who wait. We know it's frustrating for all of you who have pre-bought and want the unit(s) now. I know you can buy and install a Garmin unit tomorrow. I also know that I use both the Garmin units and the Avidyne units every day in flight and the Avidyne unit is just plain superior. Very superior. Pre-buy folks got a tremendous financial deal and the Avidyne unit will be much better than the alternative. Period. Orest notes the Garmin pressure and thinks Garmin feels real competitive pressure. He's absolutely correct. Tony is probing for the amount of delegation granted or planned by the FAA. Yes, we have been or will be granted a very large amount of delegation and that is very helpful and very powerful. There are dozens of artifacts and tests that must be accomplished for the unit cert. Most have been delegated but the FAA is holding onto some and it's extremely unlikely that will change. They are attempting to create what they believe is a level playing field and are trying to hold us to the same cert standards they hold/held the competition to. There are a lot of gory details behind that and some continual ebb and flow on the position but in general, we're very happy with the amount of delegation the FAA has granted. The FAA is NOT the schedule chokepoint on this program at all. The amount of DO-178B cert work we have to do on roughly 1 million lines of software code is just time consuming and has to be done with our without delegation.
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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 726 |
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Steve, thanks for the transparency and clarity, I certainly appreciate it. I'm in the camp of great things come to those that wait, and I'm excited.
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Thanks for the update.
Do you have any information on the undisclosed features that were promised? Perhaps, how many are remaining and how long prior to final cert they'll be announced? Maybe even confirmation they are going to make the initial release.
Edited by brou0040 - 26 Oct 2013 at 8:45pm |
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