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Interfacing of MLB100, GNS430W and EX5000

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wildbilll View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wildbilll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Interfacing of MLB100, GNS430W and EX5000
    Posted: 14 Feb 2015 at 11:29am
Some of what I am asking may belong on a different page in this forum, but I feel it's all about the same subject.
I am trying to verify compatibility of the MLB-100 to be installed in a Piper Arrow III PA-28R-201,
The existing equipment is a EXP5000 PFD which is release 6, an EX5000 MFD which is release 7,
2 Garmin GNS-430's (non-WAAS) and a Garmin GTX-330 Transponder (non ES). This is all original equipment in the aircraft as installed by Piper.
Reading the Avidyne web pages, the PFD seems to be required to be upgraded to Release 7 to make it compatible with a GNS430W upgrade we are planning and the GTX-330 will be upgraded to the ES configuration to allow for ADS-B out.
What we are trying to get firm answers on is, once we have done this upgrade to WAAS/ADS-B out, if a MLB-100 is installed:
A. Will the MLB-100 use the 430W as the position source for ADS-B In and
B. Will the EX5000 be able to display the standard ADS-B In data (TIS-B, ADS-R traffic rebroadcasts and FIS-B) from the MLB-100?
C. Does the MLB-100 use Aviation format serial data or ADS-B out+ format serial data from the GNS-430W?


Edited by wildbilll - 01 Mar 2015 at 3:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scastelino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2015 at 5:08pm
wildbill - did you ever get an answer?  I have a similar configuration with an EX5000C and GTN650s and would like to know how the MLB100 would interface to these.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wildbilll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2015 at 5:10pm
No. I thought the reply to my question was finally here. I've asked the local avionics shop and can't get an answer from them either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by wildbilll wildbilll wrote:


A. Will the MLB-100 use the 430W as the position source for ADS-B In and
B. Will the EX5000 be able to display the standard ADS-B In data (TIS-B, ADS-R traffic rebroadcasts and FIS-B) from the MLB-100?
C. Does the MLB-100 use Aviation format serial data or ADS-B out+ format serial data from the GNS-430W?

Sorry guys, I guess I'm not set up to get automatic email notifications on this thread.....

A.  Not exactly but I view that as an opposite way to look at it.   The MLB100 is an ADS-B In receiver - it doesn't need a GPS position to function.  It is catching the airborne ADS-B stream and passes it along to displays who care to use it's data.   Avidyne will publish the protocol coming out of it for public use but we can't guarantee Garmin will do anything with it.
B.  Yes, in a software release that is planned to be available later this year.
C.  Same answer as A.  It doesn't need or want position input from the Garmin (or any other) boxes.
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2015 at 6:45am
Any idea if the MLB100 will display traffic and weather on a KMD550? I have a Garmin 430 and 330es. The shop tells me the 330es will not connect its TIS output to the KMD550.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2015 at 7:11am
We can not know for sure at this time. We don't have a KMD in the lab to test with. Does it display any form of Capstone type data?
Steve Jacobson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2015 at 8:48pm

I'm not sure about 'Capstone' data - it originally connected to a Bendix/King transponder (I think it was the KT73) that displayed TIS data on the traffic page, and connected to a network of Honeywell owned ground stations to display Weather (Metar and radar). Honeywell decommissioned the network of ground stations, which disabled the weather functionality.

The current interface specs I found on line indicate Weather (FIS) via the KDR510, or L-3 WX-500 or WX-1000E Stormscope.  Traffic available through KTA870, KT73, KTA970, CAS66A, CAS67A, TCAS II, L-3 Skywatch, Ryan 9900BX.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviJake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2015 at 8:03am
I'm not sure this is  complete answer but.... I'm not confident it will work.  The guidance governing the transmission and display of ADS-B traffic requires new display symbology among other things.   For a display to be allowed to use and show ADS-B traffic, it must use this new symbology (this by the way, is subject to some intense behind the scenes debate and action from us, and other vendors).

So unless the KMD550 has, or will have, a software update to support those new ADS-B driven symbols, I'm not sure they can or will display MLB100 supplied ADS-B traffic data.  Another variant on that answer is that it may display MLB100 supplied traffic data but do so in a manner that is non-compliant with the governing guidance.  These and other similar questions can only be answered by Honeywell at this point.

Does the interface document you found indicate what protocol the KMD is expecting the Ryan 9900BX traffic data in?  RS-232 serial or ARINC-429?

Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2015 at 6:50am
Looks like it does support the airinc-429, but I don't think they will be issuing any updated software. Here is a link to the installation manual with more detailed interface specs.

http://www.aea.net/techpubs/bendixking/pdf/kmd550850/manuals/006-10608-0010_10.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2016 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Originally posted by wildbilll wildbilll wrote:


A. Will the MLB-100 use the 430W as the position source for ADS-B In and
B. Will the EX5000 be able to display the standard ADS-B In data (TIS-B, ADS-R traffic rebroadcasts and FIS-B) from the MLB-100?
C. Does the MLB-100 use Aviation format serial data or ADS-B out+ format serial data from the GNS-430W?

Sorry guys, I guess I'm not set up to get automatic email notifications on this thread.....

A.  Not exactly but I view that as an opposite way to look at it.   The MLB100 is an ADS-B In receiver - it doesn't need a GPS position to function.  It is catching the airborne ADS-B stream and passes it along to displays who care to use it's data.   Avidyne will publish the protocol coming out of it for public use but we can't guarantee Garmin will do anything with it.
B.  Yes, in a software release that is planned to be available later this year.
C.  Same answer as A.  It doesn't need or want position input from the Garmin (or any other) boxes.

Any update on the new EX5000 software release planned  to be available later in 2015, it is almost the end of 2016?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 12:13pm
We are planning to have the software for the EX series MFDs available in Q1 of 2017.
Simpson Bennett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

We are planning to have the software for the EX series MFDs available in Q1 of 2017.

If you don't mind will it just be a minor release to address the integration with the newer equipment and data feeds or are there any other updates/features planned?  Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2016 at 3:41pm
It's a minor release allowing integration to our SkyTrax100 ADS-B receiver.

For more information visit: www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=338

*link edited


Edited by AviSimpson - 11 Oct 2016 at 9:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kgrant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2016 at 7:43am
Link won't work. k
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2016 at 9:16am
Link has been fixed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2016 at 10:14am
If it is a minor release, why is it taking over a year. We purchased the Skytrax and AXP340 mainly to get TIS traffice based on the fact that it will interface with the EX5000. We did  not expect to wait a year or longer for the minor update to be completed. 

Still even with the IFD 440, you don't get any audio traffic warning like it is shown in the IFD 440pilot guide on page 3-30,  which was supposedly a typo based on the 10.2 release.
"When integrated with an optional traffic system (e.g. TAS, TIS, TCAS, ADS-B), the IFD will display traffic information for transponder-equipped aircraft and provide aural and visual
alerting for traffic considered a threat."


If we had known that, we would have purchased the L3 Lynx for about the same price and had now  a much more useful equipment with traffic and weather High definition display, and not wait for years for the updates for the IFD 440 and EX5000 that keep getting delayed

I hope Avidyne does more to support its loyal customers, other companies are rolling out new products, why is it taking Avidyne years just to get product updates released to interface with their own equipment.

Sorry for complaining, but this has been very frustrating, Avidyne should not advertise product compatibility and functions before they are approved, unless they have a release date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Originally posted by wildbilll wildbilll wrote:

A. Will the MLB-100 use the 430W as the position source for ADS-B In and
C. Does the MLB-100 use Aviation format serial data or ADS-B out+ format serial data from the GNS-430W?
A.  Not exactly but I view that as an opposite way to look at it.   The MLB100 is an ADS-B In receiver - it doesn't need a GPS position to function.  It is catching the airborne ADS-B stream and passes it along to displays who care to use it's data.   Avidyne will publish the protocol coming out of it for public use but we can't guarantee Garmin will do anything with it.
C.  Same answer as A.  It doesn't need or want position input from the Garmin (or any other) boxes.

Jake,

That does not match my understanding.  It may not need a position to receive the weather data, but it does need at least a rough idea of the own-ship position (from the "Aviation" data) to process the relative positions of proximate traffic targets.

The position data necessary for processing targets for display is not nearly as stringent as the position required for ADS-B Out from a UAT device, but at least some position is needed.

At least that's how I heard it.

David

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 8:39am

I'm pretty sure David is correct.  The MLB is going to need position source to display the data relative to the own ship position.  If you go look at the install manual for the MLB-100, GPS position from the 540 is shown.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Bob Siegfried Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 11:20am
Any news from the FEDs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kgrant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 7:54am
Sure hope these recent actions by FAA don't delay the us further....

I know they don't apply to the -200 but the political climate can't be favorable. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 12:15pm
Just to reiterate, these documents do not apply to the SkyTrax100.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 11:45am
Simpson,

You say "reiterate" but I can't find a thread with the initial iteration.  Is this being discussed elsewhere on the board?

David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:09pm
Thanks for checking my grammar. Let me be clear that the posted documents do not apply to the SkyTrax100.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 11:33am
Ok, thanks.  In cases like this with "breaking news" it is important to communicate quickly.  I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a conversation.

And of course I agree that the SkyTrax100 is not included in the NPRM.  However, any operator with an upgrade path in mind might still be interested in placing a comment in the docket.  Comment period ends on December 19th.

David Bunin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ansond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 8:55pm
Hi:

So, I have an EX5000C in my Cirrus along with twin IFD-440s and the Skytrax... I am curious if there is any additional wiring that we need to do to prepare for the EX5000C software update to allow the Skytrax traffic and weather data on the EX5000C?  

I also have the HeadsUp XM receiver installed and integrated with the MFD... Will I be able to switch between the HeadsUp and Skytrax?  For example, get the weather from my HeadsUp and Traffic (only) from the Skytrax on my EX5000C? 

Thanks!!

Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 4:47pm
You can certainly have Skytrax traffic and the XM weather on the EX5000.

What we have seen a lot of Cirrus owners do is have the ADS-B weather on the IFD440 and the XM weather on the MFD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 5:39pm
Once EX5000 Revision 8.2 is available, is there an option to user select XM vs ADS-B weather, or only one option has to be set by the avionics shop?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 4:32pm
You could wire the two sources to the EX5000, however, the weather source will not be selectable in the flight mode. It is configured only in the maintenance mode.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2016 at 2:31pm
Simpson,
Thanks for the info, any idea when to expect Revision 8.2, and at any point will traffic display on the EXP5000 PFD?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviSimpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2016 at 2:55pm
No update to share at the moment, much of the focus is on 10.2. It only should be a few months away. This is an MFD only update. No scheduled plans for an update to the PFD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n7ifr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 8:04pm
About to take my Skytrax100 in for the S.B. wiring "fix" for the "ADSB Degraded" Alert, and still wanting to also interface unit to "play with others" - like Aspen MFD.

Rather than exchange for Lynx9000 (+) (many added features), there is still a Baud Rate incompatibly - Baud Rate Out for Lynx can be adjusted for either Aspen or Avidyne, not both!!

So, does anybody know:

1. If the Aspen "Unlock" ($$) actually works?
2. What is SkyTrax100 Baud rate Out on ARNC429, or RS232 Output?
3. What is Aspen ARNC 429 Input required Baud rate?

Thanks for any wisdom.

Tom W.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidBunin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 3:28pm
ARINC 429 data doesn't have a "baud rate".  There are only two speeds.  It can be low-speed 429 or high-speed 429.

In the case of the traffic output from the SkyTrax, it is hi-speed 429 data.  Some boxes (like the IFD) can have the receive speed configured as LO or HI.  Other equipment has fixed speeds on the receiving ports, and you have to be sure to wire in to a port that reads the appropriate speed data.

I don't know which way the Aspen product is configured.  It may be selectable or it may be fixed.  But the SkyTrax traffic output is HI-speed 429.

David
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