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OK, nearly end of summer

Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: TAS600 Systems and ADS-B
Forum Description: Topics related to the Avidyne TAS600 Traffic Advisory Systems and ADS-B
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=757
Printed Date: 20 Nov 2018 at 6:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: OK, nearly end of summer
Posted By: ddgates
Subject: OK, nearly end of summer
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2015 at 4:46pm
Anything new to report on the TAS-XXX-A upgrade/box swap?

My plane goes back into the shop for other avionics stuff and if there's any chance of completing this soon it would be terrific.

Summer's almost over.


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David Gates



Replies:
Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 7:34pm
David,

Last time I asked this question on the "A" upgrade, I heard early "Fall", 2015.
Apparently there is both a hardware & software upgrade when it rolls out.

Tom Wolf


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 8:31pm
Reference TAS-A, the hardware was recently just approved/certified by the FAA.

Unit availability should start around January 2016.


-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

Reference TAS-A, the hardware was recently just approved/certified by the FAA.

Unit availability should start around January 2016.

I would call that winter, not fall.
 
Really?  Does that mean what you ship as new purchases shipping say in August will have to be redone?

Seems like a long lag.


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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 9:09pm
Not necessarily but TAS-A upgrade hardware availability will be about January of 2016. 


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 9:12pm
OK, I get it.




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David Gates


Posted By: Awful Charlie
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2016 at 4:39pm
Are we still on target for the 605 -> 605A this quarter? My 540 and 440 are still on the shelf waiting for install, pending this and the transponder issues


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2016 at 4:59pm
Short answer = No.

Longer answer = the TAS605A hardware is done and certified.   The accompanying software that takes advantage of that new hardware is not done and is several months away from being done.   We prefer to hold off shipping TAS6XXA upgrade units until the software is done to save time and expense for all involved.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Baron jockey
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 12:44pm
Last post on the TAS-A status indicated availability Jan. '16.  We're there now -- how do things stand?


Posted By: Baron jockey
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 12:49pm
Just saw the Jan 5 post.  Are we realistically looking at another half year or more?  The promise date keeps getting pushed further into the future and it's approaching 2 years since my purchase of the 605 predicated on the ADS-B in feature.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 5:05pm
I was an early installer of the TAS605A on the basis of the promise; I have a certificate from September 2014.

At the time they were promising 1090 ADS-B In capability by the end of that year.  The promises have moved on in 3 month tranches since then.

Whenever the name Avidyne comes up on UK discussion forums - typically asking about the IFD540 to replace the GTN530 - I just warn people to steer right away from them, not to touch them with a bargepole, as we say in the UK, on the grounds that they are unreliable, inefficient, untrustworthy, unresponsive and will say anything to secure a sale.

I would advocate that everyone with a 605A certificate should do the same.  If we hit their 540 sales hard enough, maybe they will begin to think about the reputational damage they are doing themselves and put some resource into meeting their promises.



Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:

they are unreliable, inefficient, untrustworthy, unresponsive and will say anything to secure a sale.


Feel free to exercise your freedom of speech elsewhere.  Those kinds of accusations will not be tolerated here.

You know nothing of the company's efficiency.

If you mean untrustworthy in the sense of knowingly stating deceitful things then that is way off the mark.

If you mean unresponsive in failing to listen to and address customer needs and questions then you are severely mistaken.

If you mean what you wrote about saying anything to secure a sale, then again, you are far, far away from reality.

Please don't hesitate to post product reviews, ask product questions, and share valuable thoughts on this forum.  But false and provocative statements will not be allowed.


-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 5:34pm
Feel free not to listen.  Is that par for the course?  You tell me.

The point remains that I and others are being very negative about Avidyne in forums that you cannot control.  Here, in this forum, it is preaching to the choir - we all know what you have said and done to your 605A customers, that is why we are here.

Outside in other forums, potential Avidyne customers maybe do not know how you have treated your customers, and need to be told before they commit to buy.

If you are responsive, as you imply, then your response will not just be to shut me up, it will be to recognise the anger and disappointment and do something about it.  

But I can tell you one thing about your responsiveness - every time I call Avidyne to enquire about this I get reassured that someone from such-and-such a team will get back to me.  Never.  Nada.  Zilch.  Not one returned call, not one update call that has been promised.  Look me up, I am using my real name.

By all means get rid of me from here.  Your trainset, your rules.  But think just for a moment what the effect of that is likely to be.  Would you not prefer to have this debate here than in the aviation press and forums?

It is wryly amusing that the only reason that I found this forum is that someone on the PPL/IR Europe forum (yes, that's right, the forum with most of the private instrument rated pilots in Europe on it) said that the one good thing about Avidyne was that they have a forum for discussion.

Shall I go back and say "well, sort of, but only if you write what Avidyne want you to write"?


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:06pm
Timothy,

Wow, you are one unhappy fellow. I don't share any of your perspectives myself, but it is a big, wide world. I also have the 605 installed, and will get the "A" when it becomes available. It will enhance operations somewhat, but the basic traffic warning value of the unit will not change greatly.

Not sure why you mention the IFD540, it really has nothing to do with the 605's. The IFD units are absolutely marvelous technology -- in my view you are doing a serious disservice to your fellow blokes characterizing it otherwise.

Incidentally, Avidyne is now strongly shying away from discussing potential release dates for products, largely because of backlash for missing dates, often for reasons largely out of their control. Too bad, I enjoyed following the certification sagas along.

* Orest



Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:08pm
Well I view that last post as far more reasonable on your part.   We welcome any constructive input.    Your first post was not a "debate" it was an attempt to set off a nuke.

I'm just not going to get myself all worked up over outside forums.   We read virtually all of them and they are an excellent pulse on the world.    Many of them even have good signal to noise ratios.

In an attempt to directly address what I think you are asking or observing:

1.  The TAS-A software is on a course that makes it available later this year.   It's placement in the priority queue is where it is.  Do we want it available yesterday?  You bet.   The reality is that it is going as fast as it can.

2.  No call backs from Avidyne Tech Support?   I take you at your word and agree that sucks and is not acceptable.   We'll look into it.  I know all the folks in Tech Support and they take their job very seriously.

3.  I don't think there is a #3 - did I miss it?


-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Wow, you are one unhappy fellow. I don't share any of your perspectives myself, but it is a big, wide world. I also have the 605 installed, and will get the "A" when it becomes available. It will enhance operations somewhat, but the basic traffic warning value of the unit will not change greatly.

Not sure why you mention the IFD540, it really has nothing to do with the 605's. The IFD units are absolutely marvelous technology -- in my view you are doing a serious disservice to your fellow blokes characterizing it otherwise, or badmouthing Avidyne for that matter.

I am unhappy.  I do not like being treated as Avidyne have treated me.

I only mention the 540 because it is the only other Avidyne product that people in the European GA world generally talk about, and, as you say, my complaints are not about the TAS605 product (which I agree is very good) but with the way Avidyne has treated me.  Companies do not generally ring-fence their behaviours, so I assume that a 540 customer will be dealt with as I have been;  it is that that I am warning of.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I'm just not going to get myself all worked up over outside forums.   We read virtually all of them and they are an excellent pulse on the world.    Many of them even have good signal to noise ratios.
Many of the forums are relatively private, such as PPL/IR Europe and the various aircraft owners' forums.  That is where the adult and influential debate takes place.  In PPL/IR the GTN750 vs IFD540 debate comes up very regularly among a large number of owners of IFR aircraft.  TAS605A is a very common reason given for not recommending that people move away from Garmin.

Quote It's placement in the priority queue is where it is.
Responsive?

Quote No call backs from Avidyne Tech Support?   I take you at your word and agree that sucks and is not acceptable.   We'll look into it.  I know all the folks in Tech Support and they take their job very seriously.
I think that the promises have been that someone from some other department would contact me.  Possibly Product Management or Marketing?  It is they that have never called back.  I agree that Tech Support are in a cleft stick.  What can they say except that another date has come and gone and there is nothing to show for it?

Quote I don't think there is a #3 - did I miss it?
I think the #3 is about Avidyne learning not to make promises they cannot meet.  I seem to remember a similar thing on LPV approaches (or maybe GNSS in general) on the 540 in Europe?  Or something like that, I forget, and I never really looked into the 540.  But I do know that Avidyne have the reputation in Europe of falling years behind their estimates, and that this usually has to do with EASA certification.

Actually, that raises another issue.  This software that is coming out sometime this year; will it be EASA approved at that point?  And are there enough 605A boxes to meet demand when the software comes out?


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

the basic traffic warning value of the unit will not change greatly.
Sorry, I missed this.  I don't agree.  There are already a lot of aircraft squitting their position, the vast majority in controlled airspace do so.

The squitted ADS-B position is much more accurate and reliable than the current twin aerial approach.


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:50pm
Quote It will enhance operations somewhat, but the basic traffic warning value of the unit will not change greatly.

Well, I stand by the above, but we can agree to disagree. Perhaps that is why I'm not so pumped on the wait for the "A". 

* Orest



Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:



I think that the promises have been that someone from some other department would contact me.  Possibly Product Management or Marketing?  It is they that have never called back. 


That's me.   What else do you want to know?

Quote

Actually, that raises another issue.  This software that is coming out sometime this year; will it be EASA approved at that point?  And are there enough 605A boxes to meet demand when the software comes out?


Will it be EASA approved at the same time?  No way to know.   EASA is supposed to honor the bilateral agreements.   Hasn't ever happened yet in our experience.   There is always a first.   It is certainly our objective to have this be the case.

Are there enough 605A boxes to meet demand when the software comes out?   I don't know what you mean.


-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

That's me.   What else do you want to know?

I wanted that contact when your colleagues promised it.  Your suggestion earlier was that the company is responsive and that it is not therefore necessary to make a noise to be heard.  My experience is the opposite.

Quote Are there enough 605A boxes to meet demand when the software comes out?  I don't know what you mean.

As I understand it from my Avionics shop, the current unit will be removed and it will be replaced with a new box.

The question is whether, when the new software is available, there will be enough such boxes on the Avidyne shelves to meet the immediate demand for upgrade.


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2016 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:



As I understand it from my Avionics shop, the current unit will be removed and it will be replaced with a new box.

The question is whether, when the new software is available, there will be enough such boxes on the Avidyne shelves to meet the immediate demand for upgrade.


It is true the TAS-A device is a new device.   Will there be enough units to meet the immediate demand for upgrade?   We sure hope so.   We have created a hardware build out plan that satisfies what we think the demand will be.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Boavi
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 2:53pm
I can understand Timothy's frustration.  I asked the same question Tuesday, and never got a response.  I had Avidyne products in a previous airplane and was very satisfied.  I bought my 605A 16 months ago, and still no unit.  I guess it's an easy way to give an interest free loan.

As to my original post.  What is the current release date?




Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 3:56pm
Hi Boavi,

What was your question on Tuesday and it is still an open question?

What did you actually buy 16 months ago?  16 months ago we were selling TAS units with upgrade coupons for TAS-A hardware when it became available.  Are you saying you never even got the TAS unit?

And for clarity, what release are you asking about?   The TAS-A hardware or the TAS-A software?   The software is on track to finish later this year.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Boavi
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 4:02pm
I have the upgrade coupon for the 605A.  I assume i have the 605, with the understanding the new 605A would be a new box with the new software.  Yes, the question is still open, but the original question is when will I have a fully functional 605A.  March, April??

Thanks,  
David



Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 4:06pm
The TAS-A hardware doesn't do anything different than your current TAS.   The hardware is necessary to take advantage of the new TAS-A software that will come out later this year but the current software on your TAS is exactly the same software as we would load on your TAS-A if we shipped it to you today.

It wouldn't do anybody any good to upgrade their TAS units right now and instead, would cost both you and us time and hassle and money.  For that reason, we are waiting until the TAS-A software is available before steaming full ahead with the upgrades.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

It wouldn't do anybody any good to upgrade their TAS units right now and instead, would cost both you and us time and hassle and money.  For that reason, we are waiting until the TAS-A software is available before steaming full ahead with the upgrades.
Well, you could involve us in that decision rather than take it for us.

I have scrapped my Aztec and bought a Navajo.  I have removed all the avionics, including the TAS, and, as we speak, it is being fitted to the Navajo.  

If you were to supply the new hardware now, like this week, that could be installed instead, so that it doesn't need to go back into the shop at some future date.

So it is not true to say that it wouldn't do anybody any good.  


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 5:04pm
There have been a number of posts about missed deadlines.

I personally have commented about the in advisability of "coming soon..." to capture market share; Avidyne I would suspect might reconsider that in the future, and judging by posts here, I think they have...

That said, they are paying penance for history. There are many of us waiting for the TAS-XXXA conversion.

This thread, however, goes beyond that and is vitriolic. It serves no one except to offend what I know to be honorable people trying to deliver in a changing and challenging environment.

Comment on strategy, if necessary (and I have), but personal attacks and impugning character? I think not.

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David Gates


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 6:45pm
You may know them to be honourable, but what evidence do I have of their honourable nature?

I have only ever bought one thing from them.  I bought it from them rather than Garmin based on a promise.  They broke their promise.  They made another promise.  Broke that.  Promise after promise.

They have taken my money and not supplied the goods.  I have other words for that than honourable.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 9:43pm
Then perhaps you should take your queues from those of us who have been on this train longitudinally.

I hope all works out well for you.


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David Gates


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 5:37am
Originally posted by ddgates ddgates wrote:

Then perhaps you should take your queues from those of us who have been on this train longitudinally.
If that means what I think it means, ie take my cues from long term Avidyne customers, then Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 5:41am
Peace.  Out.

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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 6:14am
Mr. Nathan,

We could do this in private but you seem unwilling to do that. 

I may be your best chance to resolve your issues. Do you want to have a civil discourse or are you going to continue to engage in some sort of public flogging? It's an interesting motivational technique on your part and so far, it's not having the effect I think you want it to have.

I would really like to get this resolved in a positive manner. However , we can not provide what you are asking for. We don't have the software complete and ready for distribution and no amount of shaming or venting will change that.

I wish we did have the system available for you and everyone else and extend my apologies that we don't. Given that, do you have a specific ask that is actually reasonable and achievable?



-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 6:24am
OK, puting the entire history behind us, I guess that the only thing that would help somewhat is that during my current avionics refit, which is underway and expected to take three further weeks, that they install the new unit with the old software, such that I don't have to go back at some unspecified time in the future to have the new unit fitted.

However, if the new unit is completely plug and tray compatible (and I do know that the avionics shop is doing the wiring so that the new unit will work) I guess that the act of swapping the units will take no longer than flashing the software, so maybe even that is not worth doing.

Quote We could do this in private but you seem unwilling to do that.
I don't know where that is coming from.  You have made no attempt to contact me privately despite my numerous attempts to contact you via Support.


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 6:47am
No one I've spoken to in support have any record of your contact attempts and I certainly have never gotten any whiff of your issues until this thread.

I will check with the factory and production folks on Monday to see if the build plan supports your timing.   That being said, yes, the new TAS-A box can use the existing TAS tray.


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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2016 at 2:37am
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

I will check with the factory and production folks on Monday to see if the build plan supports your timing.
I guess that was the same kind of Monday as your other time forecast estimates?  


Posted By: idmpilot
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2016 at 8:43pm
I suggest you e mail steve jacobsen directly.He is the most knowledgeable person at avidyne. He will find an answer to most issues and will respond to your questions promptly unless he is out of the country.  Jim George

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j george


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2016 at 2:59am
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

That being said, yes, the new TAS-A box can use the existing TAS tray.

I was chatting to my avionics guy yesterday who said that:
  1. According to the paperwork he can find, the new box is a long way from being plug compatible and that they will have to repin some plugs and completely change others.
  2. He had tried to find someone in Avidyne who would talk to him about this, but no-one could/would.
Is that correct?


Posted By: dryan
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 9:50am
The TAS-A sytems are a drop-in replacement for legacy TAS systems with the following exceptions:

- Although the 9-pin COM1 connector is not typically used in an installation, it is not available on the TAS-A.  The associated RS-232 interface has been moved to a new high-density connector.  If it does happen to be used in a particular installation the 9-pin connector at the end of the aircraft harness would be replaced with a 78-pin connector.

- It should be obvious, but if you are adding connections to support features not previously available in the legacy TAS systems, then additional wires would have to be added to the installation.  These additional connections would typically be added to the new 78-pin connector so that no changes to the existing wires or connectors would be necessary.



Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 10:05am
Said differently, if you are not using COM1 of the TAS unit, then you can drop a TAS-A unit into an existing TAS tray and there is no rewiring or modifications of any kind needed.

What is the contact info of your avionics guy so we can talk directly to him and straighten him out?

 

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Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by AviJake AviJake wrote:

What is the contact info of your avionics guy so we can talk directly to him and straighten him out? 

Brian Cook
avionics@bavionics.co.uk
+44 7969 512017

They are doing the job as I write, though it is past closing time today, so Monday would be great, thank you.



Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 10:44am
Steve (AVJake):

With all the excitement on the IFD540/440 v10.2.0 upgrades, I am just trying to catch up on our TAS 6xx-A upgrades...

Any update on target date for the hardware/software "A" upgrades to our TAS units to combine active TAS-In with MLB-In display?

Thanks.


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 11:06am
Originally posted by n7ifr n7ifr wrote:

...
Any update on target date for the hardware/software "A" upgrades to our TAS units to combine active TAS-In with MLB-In display?

Thanks.

I hadn't heard that the TAS "A" units would be combining inputs from the MLB, and their own, but rather that they would combine the rebroadcast and direct cast 1090 out squawks, received by the TAS units directly, with the active traffic squawks they are seeing.

But if they did, that would be a more direct path to 978 traffic squawks, not needing to rely on rebroadcast.

* Orest



Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 11:11am
I don't think the promised TAS-A upgrade was contingent on having an MLB.

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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 11:53am
That's right - no dependency on the MLB100 (now called SkyTrax 100).

Progress on the software program continues. Not done yet and at least a few months of work still to go.

-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 10:18am
May we have a status update please?

When I started this thread ("end of summer"), it was 2015.  Now we are just about at OSH 2016.  




-------------
David Gates


Posted By: N969SS
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 12:31pm
Delays surely are disappointing to pilots and manufacturer alike.  It has been interesting to watch different reactions on various forums to slipping dates which I do not find all that disconcerting in this period of intense, rapid technological change and flawed government regulation.  My confidence in the company remains extremely high, particularly since the all-Avidyne R9 Platinum panel on N969SS, one of the first installed, has functioned flawlessly for me now for over 1,300 flight hours.  They get it right the first time, and when a complete Avidyne ADS-B solution is available, it will go right into my Cirrus.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 1:30pm
It was not my intent to diss Avidyne, and has not been.

Two years, however, is more than a delay; I would call it something else.

It is not unreasonable for a customer who has purchased a product to inquire when a promised component is to be delivered.

For that reason, I am looking for an update from Avidyne.


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David Gates


Posted By: dryan
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 3:20pm
Although the TAS-A has been shipping for some time now, we have not begun to ship updates to existing installations yet.  The current TAS-A product offers the same functionality as the previous TAS series products.  We will begin updating installed TAS units to TAS-A after the software providing ADS-B functionality is shipping.  Work on the ADS-B software update is continuing and is generating much excitement for those of us working on it, but we still have a number of months to go.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2016 at 3:43pm
That does not sound promising.

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David Gates


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by dryan dryan wrote:

but we still have a number of months to go.

Steve:

The reason <we> don't find this promising is that at least three, and maybe more, estimated completion dates, have passed, and Mr. Ryan's note does not sound like anytime soon.

I have posted here respectfully my concerns about the practice of selling on the basis of "coming soon".  I would note, though, that in different forms, many sellers have done this.

I will be happy when the 605A integration is a reality, before my flying career ends.


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David Gates


Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 8:34am
Totally understand.  We share the frustration but I do know with certainty it will get done.  In the meantime, your frustration and anxiousness to get the box in the airplane is warranted.

-------------
Steve Jacobson
sjacobson@avidyne.com


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 5:15am
I don't accept that it is just a question of frustration and anxiety.   

You have taken our money.  Certainly in my case, it is money that I would have most definitely spent with Garmin had I known that you were going to break your promises to such an alarming extent.

You talk to us as if we were children in line at a candy shop, clamoring to get to the front.

We are not.  We are adults who have entered a business relationship with you.  We have fulfilled our duties and obligations, you have not.  

I have recently had an e-mail from one of the principal avionics shops in the UK asking why I am putting off so many of his customers from buying Avidyne IFD540s.  Although there are other more minor reasons, the principal answer lies fairly and squarely in this thread.

Some quotes, not from me, on the PPL/IR Europe forum discussing why people should not buy Avidyne products  include:

“I see the issue is that the amount of risk and hassle is greater than the price difference in the market.“

“Avidyne's engineering resources are too stretched. Their products are not fully developed when they come to market and their engineering support is limited.  EASA approvals are a huge hurdle for them."

You have already told us that this is a relatively low priority for you; I will keep trying to find ways of raising their priority.



Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2016 at 9:44am
A quarter has passed since we last discussed this.

Could we have an update?


Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2016 at 1:23pm
The project is still a top priority and is currently moving along. Once it is complete we will be sure to post it here as well as informing our dealer network.

-------------
Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation
Product Manager


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 5:00pm
A quarter has passed since we last discussed this.

Could we have an update?


Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 5:38pm
There are many of us loyal Avidyne owners who agree, and are losing faith in Avidyne product development and quality assurance.

Tom Wolf


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2017 at 3:04am
And answer came there none.

...and Avidyne call me to ask why at my seminars I put people off buying their product! 


Posted By: dryan
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2017 at 9:31am
Avidyne continues to make progress toward completion of the ADS-B update for the TAS-A product.  We will make announcements as additional detail becomes available.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 2:03am
A quarter has passed since we last discussed this.

Could we have an update?


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 1:34pm
No reply?  Should we assume that the team has been quietly disbanded and Avidyne hopes that we have forgotten?


Posted By: dryan
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 1:39pm
My apologies for the delay; not disbanded, just very busy.  Avidyne is shifting additional resources onto the TAS-A ADS-B update project, which should expedite completion of the remaining test and certification activities.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 1:44pm
Excellent.  What is the target date for EASA certification?


Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by dryan dryan wrote:

My apologies for the delay; not disbanded, just very busy.  Avidyne is shifting additional resources onto the TAS-A ADS-B update project, which should expedite completion of the remaining test and certification activities.

OK, you have our attention!  

Now that v10.2 and IFD100 almost perfected, this is great news 

Give us a teaser hint on time table on this and the TAS "A" display capabilities...

Tom W.




Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2017 at 11:01am
Aviation companies never benefit from making public timetable estimates.  The best answer I ever heard on this question was from Frank Robertson.  A reporter asked him when the announced R66 helicopter would be available.  His answer, "After it is certified."

They asked him what the useful load would be.  "More than the R44."

They asked him what it would cost.  "More than the R44."

Robertson wins the blue ribbon for best answers.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2017 at 12:16pm
It's a bit different when they've already taken your money, in my opinion.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 7:03pm
A quarter has passed since we last discussed this.

Could we have an update?


Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2017 at 4:29pm
Tests are ongoing. There are a few internal initiatives that are also depending on this completion as well which will help push it even more.

-------------
Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation
Product Manager


Posted By: n7ifr
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2017 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by dryan dryan wrote:

Work on the ADS-B software update is continuing and is generating much excitement for those of us working on it, but we still have a number of months to go.

We are looking forward to the same excitement.  I share DD Gates' frustration - going on 4 years breath holding.

Good news:  
1. Skytrax100 S.B. done today and fixed.
2. Skytrax100 978 Traffic displaying on my Aspens - anticipating 1090 IN ADSB + TAS "A" Composite to my540's... When out in the boonies I will still receive 978 IN on Aspens.

Bad News:

Dual 540 Cross-Synch auto-deletion of User Wpts still happening and very annoying...

Tom W.



Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2017 at 2:07am
It is certainly difficult to understand how any software project can take four years after it was promised "in a few months."


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 3:38am
A quarter has passed since we last discussed this.

Could we have an update?


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 9:46am
Should I take that for a “no, you can’t have an update”?


Posted By: Ibraham
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 11:52am
That was the same for the IFD 10.2 update, and still waiting for the Avidyne EX5000 MFD update to display ADS-B data from Avidyne MLB100 now called Skytrax100.  The Avidyne website states that the traffic and weather will display on the MFD, the update was announced to be ready by 1st quarter 2016, now they are saying 4th quarter 2017, 2 years late and still doubt it will be done by then.
Last update they blamed the snow and weather in Boston last winter, they had over a year and nothing yet, now the winter is almost here and hope they don't blame it on the snow again.

Very frustrating, especially for items that promote safety such as weather and traffic display, which was the whole reason we installed the Skytrax and other Avidyne avionics.


Posted By: ansond
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 2:29pm
As someone who has approx 25 years specifically in the software development arena, Avidyne's delays and clarity issues in their release roadmaps/activities are indeed a bit worrisome. They seem to be prone to significant delays without reasonable cause that they are willing to reveal. 

Don't get me wrong - I love my Avidyne stuff... its great... I would offer this as suggestive/constructive and not inflammatory... I care.

For the EXP5000C and its adaptation of the SkyTrax data... it actually does not surprise me that it's taking along time... From what I gather, the 5000C runs Windows NT 4.0 SP5 as the underlying kernel/OS... which, if I am correct, is stone-ages ancient... I would honestly be surprised if there was any form of support available for it anymore.  It's just a guess, but perhaps Avidyne is having to rewrite a good bit of code (possibly including putting it on a more current/supportable/recent OS?) to do any sort of augmentation to that platform...  

I am hoping for a new OS that is way more current. 

... mostly because I don't even want to think about security concerns of the 5000C... luckily that box does not connect to anything starting with an "I" ;-)... NT4.0SP5 is so old that it predates literally all of the changes that happened at/within MS around security and their OSes... my guess is that its totally exposed and unprotected... no way can it/should it be connected to a network of any form imo...additionally I do everything I can to make sure that my USB sticks are squeaky,squeaky clean...   

For the IFDs, not having regular cadence of releases is concerning in that it might be indicative of a poor relationship with the FAA and lots of difficulties getting changes through the sanctioned process... just a guess though. 

I doubt that the IFDs have an old OS or are otherwise difficult to physically support... However, that said, one other potential issue might be hindering things involves  "hardware folks grappling with software"... something I see quite a bit in my line of work... may also play a role in the challenges of pinpointing a date for release and having high confidence that you'll make that date with high quality and conformance to release processes. 

Software development rigor is non-trivial (esp. if mandated by government release processes) - it just doesn't "happen".   I do not have direct exposure/experience to Avidyne's software development principles & environment, but I'd hazard a guess that many of the folks working on this product are geeky (cool!!!) hardware-centric-types... Add to that the complexities of dealing with the FAA and I can actually understand why it's taking so long for seemingly simple updates to appear... 

Software will make or break these flight decks... and thus development and release schedule/rigor must be a key part of creating a predictable update cadence/experience...  Hopefully Avidyne & Schwinn realize this necessity. 

Garmin certainly realizes it. It's a software world.  

Looking at the Avidyne company careers site, I don't see a lot of expansion in the software development space - it seems that it's mostly hardware and sales/support... a "canary" perhaps?

I hope this is viewed as constructive... I want Avidyne to succeed!

Doug


Posted By: tony
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:24am

So I'm guessing you have no experience certifying software with the FAA.  Its an eye opening, extremely frustrating, ordeal if you do not have an ODA in place.  So before we start comparing Garmin to Avidyne, Garmin has an ODA.  Avidyne does not.  I'm sure Avidyne is just as frustrated as everyone else. 



Posted By: ansond
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by tony tony wrote:

So I'm guessing you have no experience certifying software with the FAA.  Its an eye opening, extremely frustrating, ordeal if you do not have an ODA in place.  So before we start comparing Garmin to Avidyne, Garmin has an ODA.  Avidyne does not.  I'm sure Avidyne is just as frustrated as everyone else. 


No, I don't have any experience in certifying software with the FAA... and I would never claim that I did nor that its "easy" by any stretch...

So, I do realize that Garmin has an ODA.  

Why doesn't Avidyne? 

Would it be possible for Avidyne to try to hire an ODA or train one of their current employees to become the company's ODA? Would that be possible? If it were possible, would it make sense to invest for it to happen - esp. if that's "the" primary holdup?

Seems to me that'd be a slam dunk "yes"... don't allow a competitor to have this kind of advantage if at all possible. 



Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 2:48pm
Pardon a suggestion.

The issue isn't an ODA.  The issue is "Is the package completed and ready for submission"?

I don't know but would bet it isn't the FAA holding this up for 4-5 years.


-------------
David Gates


Posted By: Ibraham
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 3:17pm
Regardless of the issue, a company should not advertise a product or feature before it is certified or within days of certification.


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 9:09am
As far as I can tell, there has been no response from Avidyne.   Do we need to conclude that they have terminated the project?

ADS-B is becoming a huge topic in the UK. The UK CAA is running a massive project to develop universal electronic conspicuity, whereby everything which flies either has feathers or squits its position on ADS-B.i

I shall need ADS-B In quite shortly. Should I just give up on Avidyne and buy a suitable Garmin transponder?

It would, of course, close all doors on any opportunity for Avidyne to get me back on board, and having me disgruntled is costing them a lot of sales as I give more and more PBN seminars in the lead up to next year’s big bang in Europe, and tell the many attendees that they should avoid Avidyne equippage when getting PBN compliant.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:

...electronic conspicuity, whereby everything which flies either has feathers or squits its position on ADS-B.


Like the description...<G>

It is unfathomable to me that, if nothing else, company pride and image didn't propel this widely announced project/feature set to completion.

And yet, I don't see an escalation path.

EDIT: Read Jake's post from > 1 year ago upthread.  I feel your pain...


-------------
David Gates


Posted By: PeterC
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 10:42am
I, too was sold a 605A with a software update "coming".  Where is it?

-------------
Peter - 1977 Cardinal RG C-FJPC - IFD550/540/240/322/605A/Skytrax100, Aspen 2000, G5, Trio A/P


Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2017 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by ansond ansond wrote:

I do realize that Garmin has an ODA.  

Why doesn't Avidyne? 

Would it be possible for Avidyne to try to hire an ODA or train one of their current employees to become the company's ODA? Would that be possible?


ODA = Organization Designation Authorization

It is an approval of an organization (a company or facility) not an individual.  You can't hire one, and you can't train a person to become one.  It is a process, and it is a process that can takes years or even decades.  It normally goes like this:

A company does their first certification project.  The do the certification with the FAA "directly" although they often hire a DER or two to help shepherd them through their end of the process.  With any luck, the application goes well and approval is forthcoming and the FAA is impressed with the applicant.

On the next project (or after a few projects) the applicant has grown as a company and has a DER (or better yet, several) on staff within the facility.  The FAA is still the final word, but trust is building for the internal DER(s) to handle minor decisions and more of the paperwork on behalf of the feds.  Side note: To become a DER, one has to be recommended or "sponsored" by at least two FAA employees.  So one does not become a DER overnight or without extensive qualifications.  In other words, these are all old men.  No new, young or out-of-the-box thinking allowed.  These people know very well how to do things by-the-book.

After lots of successful certification projects, and more trust built with the overseeing FAA office, the applicant creates an internal but separated piece of the organization (like quality control).  Lots of DER staff, lots of trust with the FAA, and (like the individual DER) a letter or two of recommendation for an ODA.  Then the approval process begins.

In other words, getting an ODA can be a years-long or even decade-long process.

I believe that the ODA of UPSAT was one of the unspoken reasons that Garmin bought them.  Or did nobody else notice that Garmin's ODA is in Oregon and not Kansas?



Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 7:52am
How long do we leave it until we just assume that work has stopped on this?

Time for a Class Action?  I don't really know how that works in the States, how many people it takes, and whether Europeans can join in.


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 10:37am
Experience suggests that our "barristers" will take on class actions where :

1.  There complainant pool is huge
-or-
2.  Where deaths are involved.

Examples are Asbestos in the US (example 2) or Amazon book overcharges (example 1).

In either event, the aggregate $$ amount must be large.

This situation meets neither of the above.




-------------
David Gates


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 3:44pm
So, do I just give up, buy a Garmin GTX 345 and spend the rest of my aviation writing and lecturing life sl*gging off Avidyne?

Will the GTX 345 plug into the back of the TAS 605, the way it does with Garmin TAS products?


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 4:03pm
Sir, many of us have the same dilemma.  FWIW, there haven't been many more vocal that me in chiding Avidyne to prioritize this promise made, I believe, 5 or 6 years ago, and as yet unfulfilled.

-nagging doesn't produce results
-damage to company image doesn't produce results
-apparently lost sales doesn't produce results

I personally would note that the company's CEO has never uttered a word on this board.  To me that speaks volumes.

What say you?


-------------
David Gates


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 4:51am
I will simply cross post from another forum:

Quote T., I’ve just had this done (with TAS600and GTX345) and NYCYankee is correct: the TAS600 feeds into the GTX which merges its traffic with ADSB-in.
This is then displayed on the GTNs and the iPad via Bluetooth.

So now at least that there is a way out using good ol' reliable Garmin.   That takes the pressure of my need to get equipped within the next year.

However, the lying, unreliability, arrogance, incompetence and general poor business practises of Avidyne will never be forgotten.  I am lucky enough to have a big voice, because of all the RNAV/PBN seminars I give, the articles I write, the trade shows I have booths at, the meetings I have with CAA, UK Government and EASA.

I will ensure that no opportunity is missed.

And Avidyne's failure will not be down to me, but down to them.


Posted By: Stiletto1
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 7:05am
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:

I will simply cross post from another forum:

Quote T., I’ve just had this done (with TAS600and GTX345) and NYCYankee is correct: the TAS600 feeds into the GTX which merges its traffic with ADSB-in.
This is then displayed on the GTNs and the iPad via Bluetooth.


Appreciate your business concerns, but I was wondering why you want this system in the first place?

Perhaps things are different in the UK, but here in the states I would consider TAS to be redundant if not obsolete technology.  I would even go so far as to say that both TCAS and ADSB are incomplete solutions to a non-existent problem.  ATC services in the states is free, and ground radar will always see more targets than TCAS or ADSB ever will (we have many non-transponder equipped aircraft here).  With so few areas not within radar coverage, and those areas having such low traffic, most of which are not transponder equipped in the first place, one wonders what all the hubbub with TAS, TCAS, ADSB-in is about.

PS: If I was the CEO of Avidyne, I would drop the TAS project, admit defeat, and refund any deposits taken. Resources would be better spent developing a competitor to the GTX345(R)  


-------------
C310C


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

but I was wondering why you want this system in the first place?

Perhaps things are different in the UK, but here in the states I would consider TAS to be redundant if not obsolete technology.

The place to start might be an understanding of airspace in the UK.  

Firstly, we are permitted to operate IFR/IMC outside controlled airspace, without an FPL and even without radio.  There is no Flight Following service (by right; some private and military agencies offer a discretionary service, but there is no obligation one either party to partake).  

We have a fairly liberal regime with respect to VFR minima, meaning that people can be flying VFR in very marginal conditions.  

We also have a sub-ICAO instrument qualification which allows people with minimal knowledge and skills to fly minimally equipped aircraft in IMC outside controlled airspace, with the fact that they are operating under the IFR not declared outside of their own heads.

Next, add in to that heady mix that traffic in some parts of the UK (most noticeably in the South East) is very dense.   I have just done a little exercise of drawing a circle 50nm around Central London and I count 170 airfields.  Phrased another way, that is an airfield on average every 7nm in any direction.  Those airfields range from one of the busiest airports in the world (Heathrow) through to one of the busiest gliding sites (Lasham) down to rarely used hotel heliports.  Add on to that that if anyone wants to fly from anywhere else - Manchester, Birmingham, Cardiff, Belfast, Dublin, Scotland - to the Continent of Europe, they will fly through the SE of England.

You soon recognise an airspace that is pretty much unknown anywhere else in the world.

Europe has not mandated ADS-B out for most traffic.  Aircraft are flying around in this airspace with a range of equipage from ADS-B Out, Mode S, Mode C, Mode A, Flarm, Powerflarm to nothing.  There is no obligation for most light operators (from parascenders to light twins) to be electronically conspicuous.

However, many light aircraft do carry transponders and many of those include altitude reporting.  Those will be picked up by TAS and not by ADS-B in.

But, as we know, the position derived from the TAS twin aerial approach, though good, is not perfect and it misses stuff, so ADS-B is considerably better.

The UK CAA is having a big push on the "known environment" front, as mentioned in a previous post, and ADS-B out will be heading towards being universal, even on paragliders and Amazon drones.

Quote I would even go so far as to say that both TCAS and ADSB are incomplete solutions

Agreed.

Quote to a non-existent problem.

I trust that you would no longer say that, given what I have written above.

Quote ATC services in the States is free, and ground radar will always see more targets than TCAS or ADSB ever will (we have many non-transponder equipped aircraft here).  With so few areas not within radar coverage, and those areas having such low traffic, most of which are not transponder equipped in the first place, one wonders what all the hubbub with TAS, TCAS, ADSB-in is about.

Much of this is not true of the UK.

Quote PS: If I was the CEO of Avidyne, I would drop the TAS project, admit defeat, and refund any deposits taken. Resources would be better spent developing a competitor to the GTX345(R)

They offered to refund my deposit if I would shut up, and I declined.  

only if they replace my TAS605 with the Garmin equivalent, supplied and fitted, or have a GTX345 fitted to my aircraft, will I shut up.  

This is not about the $2000 or whatever the upgrade is said to be worth, it is about a whole decision chain that has ended up with my not having ADS-B nearly four years after Avidyne promised it and charged me for it.


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 8:50am
Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

.... here in the states I would consider TAS to be redundant if not obsolete technology. ...

I would agree that in the US the value of TAS has greatly diminished with the prevalence of US TIS-B. But do remember that the US is the only place in the world that has such an animal. Up to Avidyne (and Garmin) to evaluate the business case for production.

But TCAS is a whole different universe, and a separate discussion. It is not going anywhere in the near future.

Speaking to flying in Canada, you are very soon out of radar coverage as you depart the major population centers, especially if you stray from airways or fly below 15k or so. For me TAS is a critical safety element north of the border, and as a side benefit it does fill in the blanks in the US as well.

Having ADS-B (re)broadcasts assist localization on the TAS units would be a nice perk, but it is hardly a pivotal issue to me. Even without it, my TAS unit remains in good service. When they finish the software, I've got a free (prepaid) upgrade for my TAS605. 

That makes me a happy camper.

Prime targets, especially those dang gliders, will always remain a really pesky issue.

* Orest



Posted By: Stiletto1
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 10:33am
Thank you both for the education on foreign airspace issues.

Timothy, regarding the UK issues: You are correct that I would not call the problem there non-existent based upon what you have described.  Looks to me like the CAA needs to get a handle on a traffic control standard.

My theater of operations is not nearly that problematic.  So long as there are so many aircraft not required to even have a transponder outside of rule airspace up to 10k', I'll be placing the bulk of my traffic awareness investment in ATC.

Now, if it were to be mandated here in the states that anything operating above say 3000agl must be equipped with at least ADSB-out you could count me all in for a dual band ADSB-in solution.

Fact is my plane is going in early spring for a new stack.  Would be nice if Avidyne had a dual band in competitor to the GTX345R by then.




-------------
C310C


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

Fact is my plane is going in early spring for a new stack.  Would be nice if Avidyne had a dual band in competitor to the GTX345R by then.

After all that you have read on here, why would that stack be Avidyne, or have any Avidyne equipment?  I have overseen two new stacks over the last year.  GTN750, GTN650 and in one case Aspen, the other G600.  Both have WX500, Garmin Mode S, Garmin audio panel.  Both have been faultless and "just worked".  

Why would you buy into all the overheating problems, certification issues and after-sales issues that you know you are going to get from Avidyne?


Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 7:09pm
Oh Timothy. You must be reading only your own posts.

If I bought a plane with a GTN, I'd pull it and install an IFD. It is a so much better designed unit. Delighted with my "A" equipment, for quite a number of years now.

But, I respect your right to choose. If you don't like the A stuff, pull it, and get on with life.

* Orest



Posted By: Stiletto1
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:

Originally posted by Stiletto1 Stiletto1 wrote:

Fact is my plane is going in early spring for a new stack.  Would be nice if Avidyne had a dual band in competitor to the GTX345R by then.

After all that you have read on here, why would that stack be Avidyne, or have any Avidyne equipment?  I have overseen two new stacks over the last year.  GTN750, GTN650 and in one case Aspen, the other G600.  Both have WX500, Garmin Mode S, Garmin audio panel.  Both have been faultless and "just worked".  

Why would you buy into all the overheating problems, certification issues and after-sales issues that you know you are going to get from Avidyne?

That Avidyne has had trouble with the TAS600A development is hardly enough for me to discount the rest of their product line.  Fact is Garmin is not without it's own development problems and share of detractors.

Would I have made the same product development and marketing decisions that Avidyne has?  Probably not.  Was it wise of Garmin to have orphaned the GNS navigators and forced a complete new rack installation of incompatible equipment?  Genius decision, that one.

I'm no fan boy for either brand and can go either way.  I prefer the IFD FMS over the GTN - no contest.  I prefer the redundant WAAS, BT, and dual band-in of the GTX345R and its' integration with the GTN over the Avidyne offering.  It's a tough call, but for all the reasons I mentioned previously I can wait for a dual band in solution. 

Avidyne has been unable to provide you with a product that did not exist at the time you ordered it and has offered to refund your deposit. You chose not to accept it and have instead wasted a lot of time and energy attempting to bully them while not enjoying an alternate solution. I find, therefore, no credible bona fides in your attempt to sway my decision.

I hope that answers your question.




-------------
C310C


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:06am
I like the idea that I, the little guy, can "bully" a multi million dollar US Corporation.  I am proud even to have been noticed by them ;-)

My general rule, when I am being treated like dirt by a corporation, is to ensure that the encounter costs them at least 100x what it has cost me.  

I have achieved this goal many times, indeed, I think, every time I have tried.  

It started when I was given a spurious parking fine by my local council, and they wouldn't revoke it, although they agreed it was illegal. That cost them £4000 ($5000) in lost sponsorship. 

Then there was getting Vodafone to build a cellular mast because they promised coverage where there wasn't any and VirginMedia to build a new exchange because their internet speeds were well below advertised, Zurich Insurance to pay substantial damages on the court steps and so on.

I don't consider it wasting a lot of time and energy so much as having fun while reminding corporations that they cannot always assume that they can treat their customers like mindless cattle who will suffer whatever indignity is heaped on them.  One needs to offset the asymmetry of power.

Avidyne seem to think that they can have people take big financial decisions based on their promises, and then to break the promises and the punters will just roll over and say "never mind".  I'd like them to know that it's not OK.

They offered me approximately $2000 to relieve them of their obligation.  That would not come anywhere near the cost of putting in a GTX345, and anyway, that is not the point, they need to learn to take the consequences of their behaviour, which was, after all, to take our money under false pretences.

At the moment, the only consequence is my doing a big anti-sell on them at my PBN seminars all over Europe, but as those seminars are largely attended by private owners and schools who want to move to RNAV/RNP/PBN, it is what you might call a "target rich environment" ;-)

It does seem that they have completely shelved the whole project and don't know how to announce it :-(


Posted By: Stiletto1
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:53am
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:

They offered me approximately $2000 to relieve them of their obligation. 

Was that $2000.00 offer more than the amount of your original deposit?


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C310C


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:27am
I think very little is accomplished by bashing Avidyne on their own discussion board.

Perhaps I've missed it, but does G* even have a discussion board?

I've been, and remain, critical of a business strategy of announcing and "pre-selling" a product which does not exist and isn't even clearly in the mist.  That strategy maybe sold a few more units, but created a modicum of animus, and exposed the fact that the company has limited resources and cannot turn on a dime.

That said, G* has done it.  They did it with their own TAS, for example.

Aspen did the same for even more years with their "ADS-B solutions", and ended up their only offering was a rebranded single frequency unit, as well as pushing somebody else's products.

I do think Avi should definitively address their position on completion and delivery of TAS-A units, and if they cannot fulfill the commitment, come to some reasonable accommodation with purchasers.

Then we should all move on.






-------------
David Gates


Posted By: Timothy Nathan
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 11:56am
I didn’t pay a deposit. I had to decide between Garmin and Avidyne on a new install. I was told that Garmin already had ADS-B but was relatively expensive, and that Avidyne was just as good, cheaper and would be adding ADS-B, free of charge, very soon and would issue a promissory note to that effect.

Foolishly, knowing much less about Avidyne then than I do now, I went the Avidyne route, got the voucher and waited.

That wait has now turned into a joke.

If I had done my due diligence properly, I would have found out how free Avidyne is with their promises and how easy they are with breaking them, but in my innocence I took the installer’s word for it and went ahead.

When it became clear that they were going to renege on their promises, certainly in timescale, but now, it would seem, in totality, I started advising people against buying Avidyne. I have a lot of face-to-face contact with IFR pilots because I am seen as something of an expert on PBN, and PBN is the “next big thing” in Europe. I agree that railing on forums doesn’t gain much traction, and I don’t do it much, unless people are specifically asking whether they should go GNS upgrade, GTN or IFD (a very common question in Europe as PBN compliance becomes mandatory).

Word got back to Avidyne that I was briefing against them, and indeed they knew about a number of specific lost sales, and they “made me an offer” and “appealed to my humanity.”

So, it’s wrong to describe it as a return of deposit, and I apologise for being lazy in my description, but that is a full description.


Posted By: Stiletto1
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Timothy Nathan Timothy Nathan wrote:

I didn’t pay a deposit. I had to decide between Garmin and Avidyne on a new install. I was told that Garmin already had ADS-B but was relatively expensive, and that Avidyne was just as good, cheaper and would be adding ADS-B, free of charge, very soon and would issue a promissory note to that effect.

Foolishly, knowing much less about Avidyne then than I do now, I went the Avidyne route, got the voucher and waited.

<snip>

So, it’s wrong to describe it as a return of deposit, and I apologise for being lazy in my description, but that is a full description.

Interesting.  I've never heard of such a thing.

So; Avidyne, or was it the installer, gave you a promissory note, or a voucher, for a free ADSB transponder with installation, should you decide to purchase an IFD at a time when they did not offer an ADSB transponder, on the basis that they were developing an ADSB transponder and would provide one to you free of charge when it became available - of which you were lead to believe would be delivered within some reasonable amount of time?

That's amazing!  How specific was that voucher? I'd love to read it.








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C310C


Posted By: ddgates
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 5:26pm
All who bought units in that time frame were given a "coupon" redeemable for a TAS-A unit when approved.  It turns out that means a unit exchange.

Additionally, owners who had TAS units from before were offered a #2K upgrade to TAS-A under the same terms.

The unit is approved.  The software is not complete, and therein lies the rub.


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David Gates



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