GPS failure - even with 10.1
Printed From: Avidyne
Category: Avidyne General
Forum Name: IFD 5 Series & IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
Forum Description: Topics on Avidyne's IFD 5 Series and IFD 4 Series Touch Screen GPS/NAV/COM
URL: http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=760
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 12:12am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: GPS failure - even with 10.1
Posted By: comancheguy
Subject: GPS failure - even with 10.1
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2015 at 4:38pm
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Hate to post this, but it's true... Once briefly on flight from Shop to home (after 10.1 upgrade). Once on the way back from OSH, yesterday. Lasted about 3-4 minutes, maybe? Both times on the #1 unit. (Which has a slightly older S/N, I think)? I'd have to verify that. This needs to be looked into. I'll pull the logs tomorrow. Is there some HW fix, that that box needs? Ken
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Replies:
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2015 at 5:13pm
Maybe. Logs will tell us. Standing by until we get them. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
comancheguy wrote:Posted By: ptlevine
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 10:12am
| I had one brief GPS outage last week during a flight back from Wichita to NY. The outage lasted about 20 seconds or so. However, it occurred when I was smack in the middle of an MOA over an AFB. So, it is possible that it was related. However, my 430 didn't lose its location. I can download my logs and send them in too next time I am at the plane. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 10:14am
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Yes we'd like to see those logs please. Especially need the GPS logs which will be big. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: NZFlyer
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2015 at 11:21pm
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Today I also had a GPS outage for about 20 seconds on my IFD 540. The G430 did not lose its position. I'm running 10.1. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 7:40am
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Definitely want to get a copy of the logs for both planes (ptlevine and NZFlyer). With the new GPS logs in 10.1, it should tell us exactly what happened. The GPS logs will be big but those are the most important ones followed in importance by the Event log. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: NZFlyer
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 4:52pm
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AviJake, My logs will be with you Monday. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 5:20pm
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Right on. Thank you. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: ptlevine
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 9:08am
I will try to get to the plane early next week to get them for you... I am out of town (w/o the plane) this weekend. Pete |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 9:11am
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Understood. Thanks. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: comancheguy
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 1:32pm
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Update on this: Avidyne has looke at my logs, and as expected, there is a GPS Hardware update that my #1 IFD-540 needs. Apparently #2 doesn't need it. So, it is a known issue, and should be fixed easily. Thanks, Sergio and Steve! Ken
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Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 4:15pm
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Hi My IFD 540 was installed last November. Is there an easy way to find out if it needs this hardware modification? I am currently holding off on doing the upgrade to 10.1 as the system seems to be working however I have seen occasional drop outs on GPS and am wondering if this might be the issue. Thanks Ben
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Posted By: comancheguy
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 4:34pm
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Avidyne can tell by S/N, I think. 10.1 fixed my issues 99%. (100% on the #2). Ken
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Posted By: 310pilot
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 6:28pm
| I had this exact issue in flight yesterday ... In cruise "GPS FAULT NO POSITION" ... Like previously reported it lasted approx 20 seconds and then found itself again.... |
Posted By: NZFlyer
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 10:30pm
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AviJake, My logs will be with you Monday. Edited by NZFlyer - 30 Jul 2015 at 4:53pm The logs were sent Monday, still waiting for a reply. Thanks |
Posted By: NZFlyer
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 10:31pm
The logs were sent Monday, still waiting for a replying. Thanks |
Posted By: DavidBunin
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 1:17pm
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I think Jake took some vacation time after Oshkosh. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 2:10pm
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Yes, Jake is on vacation.
Edit* You can always forward the logs on to Tech Support unless it was something that Jake was requesting specifically. ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: NZFlyer
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 2:56pm
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Thanks The logs were requested by AviJake, but also sent to Tech Support. I will follow up with them. |
Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 12:36pm
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Hi Looks like the serial number for my unit is M144131013. Can someone from Avidyne chime in and let me know if there is a GPS mod required for this unit? It has never been back to the factory since install and is currently running 10.0.2.0. thanks Ben
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Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 1:36pm
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We really recommend updating to 10.1 (this can be done in the field). Are you having GPS issues currently? ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: tony
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 7:39pm
| Tech support knows the configuration of every serial number. If you call them, they can tell you if you need to send your unit back for the hardware mod. I would guess if you received your unit with 10.0.2.0, you probably need to have the hardware mod installed. I know there was a mod for the GPS receiver, something about ferrite beads, and a second one that enabled the standby by audio. |
Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 11:43pm
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Hi I have seen occasional dropouts on GPS. It usually comes back in a few minutes. I have to travel a little bit to have the upgrade done so I have been holding off since its kind of inconvenient but if there is an indicated need for a hardware fix ill get it done. I took a look at the service information letters and don't see any calling for serial number related hardware mod except for the standby comms monitor, which I don't consider urgent. If someone from Avidyne wants to PM me on whether my unit needs a GPS fix based on the SN please do so. Thanks Ben
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Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 9:48am
Ben, I've found that for stuff like that, it is much quicker to just call Avidyne support. They will have an answer for you immediately. *Orest |
Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 2:10pm
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So my experience with tech support has been sketchy up to this point. See my post regarding the VOR line not working with the Aspen. Tech support didn't help with this. I got the answer here, from others that this won't work until Aspen enables passing of data through the ACU that is currently suppressed. I did however call tech support yesterday and they are sending a 10.1 conversion kit to Exec autopilots in Sacramento. Exec Autopilots is also submitting an RMA for an advance exchange but there is apparently a queue for these so could be a few weeks before one is available. My unit is in the block of serial numbers with known potential problems. (sigh) so I want to get the exchange regardless of how it does with 10.1. One thing folks might want to know is that when I was talking to tech support there was some discussion of a "high gain" hardware mod that I have not seen any mention of in these forums. My guess is they tweaked the GPS receiver for greater output, so its not a ferrite bead problem, its a receiver problem and if so certainly worth fixing if the unit you have did not get this done. The statement was that "not every box in this block has a problem". I suspect its more likely that not every install in this block has a problem. If the antenna and wiring is good enough, the gain is sufficient. If not, then you get these dropouts. My impression is this change to a higher gain front end is being done sort of under the covers along with the standby comms mod if a box goes in for service. I would say that the tech support was very responsive, which is good. I would also say that they were somewhat evasive on the matter of the high gain mod. I am not sure why. As an engineer I appreciate an attitude of here's the issue we need to fix, and just dealing with it. I really like the box, and made a conscious decision to buy rev 1.0 of a product knowing what I was probably getting into so I am not overly upset with problems, but would like honesty and a proactive approach, meaning maybe they contact me instead of me contacting them, to deal with the bumps in the road.
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Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 9:09am
Just back from vacation. Will check in with the crew who reviewed the logs either later today (Sunday) or tomorrow (Monday). ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 9:30am
Sorry you felt there was evasiveness on the GPS mods. I'm sure that was NOT their intent. There have been a number of GPS improvements in the last year to the IFD540. In summary:
------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 10:49am
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(disregard)
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Posted By: rolfe_tessem
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 3:01pm
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Unfortunately, I had numerous failures yesterday, even after the 10.1 upgrade. I thought I was out of the woods, as the flight back from the shop was uneventful, but yesterday's flight to Nantucket was full of GPS lock failures, some lasting 10 minutes or more. I have emailed a link to a dropbox folder full of the logs to tech support, and look forward to hearing back from them ASAP. I'm assuming that the unit needs to go back to Avidyne, which will make me AOG for all intents and purposes. Rolfe |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 3:07pm
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Not good. I'll make sure we look at the data Monday morning if not already done. Presuming the logs are good, they *should* tell us exactly what happened. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 1:14pm
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Thanks for the detailed explanation on GPS fixes. I did provide my logs to tech support as part of the activity. Since they are working on an advance replacement perhaps they saw something in there that indicated there is a clock issue. I will post here with my observations after the various fixes have been tried. Ben
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Posted By: MarcosMarchese
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 10:56am
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I've just installed an IFD540 in place of 530W. It has 10.1 software. S/N M144533561. Probably is the first installed in Brazil, where there is no WAAS coverage but unit locks 12-13 satellites in FDE mode. I had 4 events of satellite dropout so far. Each time it drops for 20-30 seconds recovers and drops again.
First time it happens during an Instrument Departure and the following happens during cruise flight. I downloaded all logs, where am I supposed to send them? Marcos
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Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2015 at 5:07pm
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Hi So here's my update on the 10.1 upgrade. After the install I have taken it for about 3 hours of flight time and seen one "GPS Dead Reckoning" message that I noticed. It lasted for about 10 seconds then went away. There may have been more because I wasn't watching the system constantly as I was working on some LOP running characterization. One other thing I noticed is that when I had 10.0.2, and I went to look at the GPS status page it generally showed a full screen of solid green bars and was pretty steady. With this upgrade the screen seems to show about 50/50 solid and outlined green bars and lots of blinking going on as the bars shift around on the screen. Not sure if this change in behavior is 10.1 related or something else. I can download the logs, but I have Exec autopilots working on an advance exchange and will swap this in when it shows up, given that I am still seeing problems. So the logs are probably of limited value but I'm happy to get them. -Ben
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Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2015 at 9:28am
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Ben, Bouncy satellite bar indications are "normal" now with Rel 10.1.0.0 - they should be no cause for alarm. It sounds like you have an exchange unit in the works - we'll look at the logs when we get it but I'm willing to bet you will stand to benefit from what we call hardware mods 8 and 11. Those are what produces the last bullet in my 9 Aug post above. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: Royski
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2015 at 1:03pm
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I also had a GPS failure after updating to 10.1 (but not prior). Is there someone other than the general techsupport email to handle this? I emailed them on Saturday and have not heard back. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2015 at 1:59pm
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The techsupport(at)avidyne or 888/723-7592 (781/402-7592) is the best way to have Tech Support issues resolved. They're available Monday through Friday 8am to 5pm (EDT). Additionally, there is an after hours AOG hotline: ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: ColTim
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2015 at 6:10pm
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Since my 540 was upgraded to the latest software, I have had at least two GPS outages that I noticed. They don't last long 10-15 seconds, but one was as I was setting up for a practice RNAV approach. Before the upgrade I don't recall an outage but it did take awhile on the ground to capture the satellites. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2015 at 6:12pm
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Does Avidyne Tech Support have your data logs or will have them shortly? With the logs, they *should* be able to determine if you need HW mod 8 and 11 to go along with your 10.1.0.0 software. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |
Posted By: ColTim
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2015 at 6:28pm
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I will send them this week if needed, but I did provide them during an issue with flying a hold. Additionally the unit was sent back for the Hardware update for radio monitoring prior to the release of the new software. Thanks Tim |
Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 4:46pm
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Hi so here's another update. I went up to Sac Exec yesterday and had the advance RMA unit swapped for my old unit. I did not see any GPS fails on the way back. On the old unit with the 10.1 upgrade it took about 2-3 hours of flight activity to see this. Since they came and went in about 4-10 seconds it was easy to miss. I will continue to keep an eye on it. Based on previous experience I would say that if it can pass about 10 flight hours without this issue it is starting to look like the problem is resolved. |
Posted By: teeth6
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2015 at 8:25pm
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I had no GPS loss issues since 10.1 until about 4 flights ago but I have now had them on my last 3 out of 4 flights. The first time it affected first the top 540 for about 10 secs and as soon as that cleared, it affected the bottom 540 also. On the next flight, it affected the top 540 for about 30 secs before departure (which is the issue I was having a lot prior to 10.1) and on a flight today, it affected the bottom 540 only for about 30 secs. I heard a 500 foot callout warning (at 7000 feet) which was quickly followed by the GPS integrity warning. Could anything have changed in the units to provoke this? |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2015 at 9:38pm
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Posted By: teeth6
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2015 at 10:17pm
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Not as yet. I usually wait until they request them. |
Posted By: MysticCobra
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2015 at 3:34pm
| If I wanted a problem solved, I'd be pushing data at tech support as fast as I could, but that's just me. |
Posted By: sephi
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 3:59pm
| I am having the same issue on my unit. |
Posted By: AviSimpson
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 4:01pm
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We will want your logs if you are experiencing GPS issues. Please download them and send them to techsupport(at)avidyne.com. ------------- Simpson Bennett Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
Posted By: sephi
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 11:07am
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I spoke with Christine Evans at tech support and she told me to ship the unit back to you guys. I have my plane at my avidyne dealer now and it the 540 is being RMAed back to you right now. That was simple and easy thanks
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Posted By: B2C2
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 1:37pm
| So hopefully the final update. I have about 10 hours on the advance replacement unit and have not seen any GPS fails. Looks like the combination of the up to date hardware mods and the 10.1.0.0 software have fixed the problem. I continue to really enjoy the unit, and the new data fields with 10.1 are a lot of fun to use. Ill be doing an IPC in early November so well put the unit through its paces. Last time I did this it worked flawlessly. Autopilot coupled missed approaches were perfect. A real pleasure. The GPS issues showed up later for some reason. |
Posted By: teeth6
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2015 at 8:33am
| Not that it is a concern to us, but there is an ongoing discussion on my Socata User group site of GTN750 owners who have been getting random ongoing GPS loss issues in flight. 😉 |
Posted By: comancheguy
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2015 at 11:48am
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And they are touch screen ONLY! :) I am going flying today with my units after all the HW mods were applied. I am confident that this issue will be behind us.
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Posted By: ColTim
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 9:41am
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Just got the plane back in the air after an engine repair and now having even more GPS capture issues than before. Not fun in the Washington air space. Which of the logs do you need me to send to tech support? |
Posted By: ColTim
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 10:02am
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Which of the logs do I need to send to tech support. The GPS issue seems to be getting worse with my unit |
Posted By: oskrypuch
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 5:05pm
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All of them. * Orest |
Posted By: sephi
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 5:36pm
| I was doing some commercial maneuvers and my 540 lost GPS while the 440 was still good to go. I am still having issues even though it was sent back once already. |
Posted By: luchetto
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2016 at 1:33am
| I had a GPS failure two days ago when coming back from Italy to Zurich. The 540 lost the signal with the yellow warning message while the 440 didn't. My SW is 10.1.2 |
Posted By: Royski
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2016 at 8:17am
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Suggest you try upgrading to 10.1.3 which is supposed to help with GPS issues in Europe, Africa or Australia. I had a brief GPS failure with 10.1.2 while flying in Massachusetts (USA) last month. I haven't bothered downloading and sending the logs as I expect and hope that 10.2 will be out soon. |
Posted By: AviJake
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 3:45pm
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Yes, 10.1.3 will make a world of difference for the European folks. ------------- Steve Jacobson sjacobson@avidyne.com |