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Gary L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Garmin G5 and IFD 540
    Posted: 01 Jul 2018 at 5:03pm
I see that the G-5 now has s/w version 5.30 available.  Any pireps on it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 11:33pm
Bearing pointer works only with the number one navigator. Select. Vor and it is the blue pointer on hsi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 12:19am
For those of you with the G5 HSI, can you use the IFD540's VOR signal for a bearing pointer? Or, do you have to connect to a 2nd radio to get that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cruiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by khuffine khuffine wrote:

Order a deklin aiu 900 for the go between the g5 and autopilot. Does a great job with gad29 b

how do you get one of those approved for certified aircraft?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slatye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 5:39am
I'm just about to connect a dual G5 (plus GMU-11 and GAD-29B) setup to an IFD540, but would someone mind checking the connections/settings for me? Other hardware in the system is a Bendix-King KT74 transponder, STEC 50 autopilot, and Garmin GI-106A nav indicator. What I've gathered from reading the installation manuals is:

IFD540 settings for the G5s:
RS-232 channel 1 output: MapMX format, connects to both G5s to provide GPS data (I’ll also have a backup GA35 antenna just for the G5s)
RS-232 channel 1 input: disabled
GPS ARINC 429 output: low speed, GAMA 429 format (connects to GAD-29B)
VOR/ILS ARINC 429 output: low speed (connects to GAD-29B)
GPS ARINC 429 input 1: low speed, GAD 42 format (connects to GAD-29B)
SDI: LNAV 1
VNAV: Enable Labels

IFD540 settings for the KT-74:
RS-232 channel 2 output: ADS-B (Avi) format (connects to KT-74 directly)

IFD540 settings for the GI-106A:
Direct connection from dedicated IFD540 ports, no need to configure any I/O

Is that right?

Two futher questions:

(1) Do I need to connect the IFD540 VOR/ILS ARINC429 input to the GAD-29B too? The IFD540 manual shows connections for the Aspen systems, and their airdata output only goes to the GPS ARINC 429 input section. However, the G5 install manual shows the ARINC 429 connection going to both GPS and VOR/ILS sections on a GNS-530W.

(2) Is there any way to have the G5 output its altitude data to the KT-74? I’ve got an altitude encoder, but if I can dump that and rely on the G5’s internal encoder then that saves weight and wiring, as well as ensuring that the G5 and the KT-74 agree.


Thanks for any help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khuffine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 10:43pm
Order a deklin aiu 900 for the go between the g5 and autopilot. Does a great job with gad29 b
Khuffine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AviTJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 10:53am
The IFD does work with the G5.  Truth be told, we already accept all of the 429 labels via the GAD42 configuration (the ability the GNS update gives).  The time consuming part of this is getting it added to our installation manual, which requires amending the STC.  As others have mentioned there are quite a few of these flying around already.  Showing the IFD vs GNS as "like equipment" shouldn't be difficult for 337 purposes.  

We can't make any promises about the G brand autopilot integration with G5's yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying_Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 9:38pm
Let me guess..still no update...  (sigh)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 10:52am
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Do you know if Garmin is addressing the need for dual ARINC429 ports on the G5 side, or the GNS530/430 side?  If the latter, then I would think Avidyne will need to make the corresponding change.

Last I heard from Garmin, the ARINC429 port consolidation was being done with software update for the GNS 430/530 and was to be completed mid-December. I've not been able to get confirmation of that. It was being done because some folks use one of these ports for other inputs from other devices.

It was not clear if the G5 would also be changed. As of yesterday, G5 version 5.0 is still current from mid-December and my G5s still work fine with my IFD 540.

Per email from Garmin tech yesterday - the new software for GNS 5xx is version 5.4. This new software will not be required for G5 units to work properly. And, the G5 software will not be changed to require this GNS 5xx software change, so the G5 will still work with all its features when connected to IFD units. FYI, G5 software was just updated to v5.1.

It appears it was fix in version 5.4 in the GNS 5XX software. You will need to go to a Garmin Dealer for the sw upgrade.

 

GNS 400W/500W Series Main Software v5.40 includes the following:

• Added support for GFC 500

• Added ARINC 429 input for G5

• Fixed issue where FIS-B METARs and TAFs may not be displayed if too many are received

• Fixed issue related to importing/export flight plans with IAF waypoints and procedure transition waypoints


(and)

 The fix is in the GNS 5.4 software. The G5 will not require a software upgrade but I still suggest upgrading it to sw 5.1.


The STC'd G5 software posted on Garmin site is still on 5.0. The fellow who wrote to me above is in the experimental wing, so their software might well be at v5.1


 I also learned that having the Flight Director bars shown on G5 without benefit of an installed autopilot is NOT possible because the G5 gets that signal from a component of the compatible autopilot or from a separate box that could be installed. I'm still going to hope that the G500 autopilot gets an STC for Cessna Cardinal airplanes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 10:42am
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

I do not yet know if a GAD 29 (pre-Dec 2017 production) can be updated to a GAD 29B. Garmin aviation tech support is closed today - Feb 2 - for training. I'll post an update once I find out.

I have answers from Garmin - the GAD 29 is different internally from the GAD 29B. Therefore, a GAD 29 cannot be upgraded to a GAD 29B by software.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 9:51am
Likewise.  My G5 works perfectly with my 550.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 6:27am
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Do you know if Garmin is addressing the need for dual ARINC429 ports on the G5 side, or the GNS530/430 side?  If the latter, then I would think Avidyne will need to make the corresponding change.

Last I heard from Garmin, the ARINC429 port consolidation was being done with software update for the GNS 430/530 and was to be completed mid-December. I've not been able to get confirmation of that. It was being done because some folks use one of these ports for other inputs from other devices.

It was not clear if the G5 would also be changed. As of yesterday, G5 version 5.0 is still current from mid-December and my G5s still work fine with my IFD 540.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by dwbarnett dwbarnett wrote:

Hmm, based on the info I’m reading, doesn’t look like an interface for my IFD 440 and a G5 will be here any time ... 

Hmm, based on Gring's and compasst posts, it appears that these are indeed working together now.

But personally I think an ASPEN 1000 Pro is a better option than twin G5's anyway, and it is not much more.

* Orest

 




Edited by oskrypuch - 08 Feb 2018 at 10:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?
No, not confirming anything about either, just recalling from threads here, I don't have any of those products so no first hand information. For definitive information call tech support.

OK, my question remains unanswered then.  Unless I hear otherwise, I tentatively conclude the 430/530 can be swapped out with an IFD 440/540, and everything that worked with the 430/530 will work with the IFD 440/540, apart from the items mentioned by Gring.

Just to be clear, I don't believe Avidyne has advertised that the IFD 440/540 is compatible with any other upgrade you might install in your panel at the same time you swap out the 430/530.  The plug 'n play claim says only that the IFD is compatible with equipment the 430/530 is compatible with - which might now need a temporary asterisk given Gring's info until the IFDs can catch up to the modifications recently made to the 430/530 software.  I suppose there will always be a lag between Garmin's 430/530 software upgrades, and the corresponding ones for the IFDs.

Not related to the G5, but you might want to check the BeechTalk forum thread regarding a fellow who had issues pulling a G* 530W and plugging an IFD540 in conjunction with an Aspen 1000 Pro & G* GTX345. A bit specific to the 345, but nonetheless shows how important it is to not make assumptions.


Vince
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwbarnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 5:46pm
Hmm, based on the info I’m reading, doesn’t look like an interface for my IFD 440 and a G5 will be here any time
soon, if ever. I would really like to get rid of my analog stuff, but I like the GPSS, especially in a heavy workload IFR environment. I love my 440, but based on the track record of releases for software upgrades, don’t see
a resolution anytime soon. Might have to go to Plan B, look at the Aspen setup. Concerned though, as I have heard
Aspen is struggling in the market somewhat Optimally for me would be dual G5 with GPSS, and ESI500 for backup

Hoping Avidyne can get things squared away soon.
Best,
David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:

Everything displays on a dual G5 setup that still retains a vacuum AI, such as needed for a Century III autopilot. As noted in another message above, Garmin is combining 429 ports to fix a problem with their GNS 530w talking to the G5. I witnessed this problem in an aircraft I was test flying following a dual G5 install - the G5 did NOT display the glideSLOPE on ILS but did display the glidePATH on LPV approachs. The IFD 540 in two other installs that I have flown did correctly communicate with the dual G5 installs in those planes. Those installs used the 429 configurations (two channels) shown in the G5 STC installation docs version 11 dated Dec 2017. In order for vertical guidance from the IFD to show on the G5, the setting for VNAV must be on ENABLE LABELS. This particular setting is VNAV ENABLED in the GNS 530 and G5 installation manuals.

Do you know if Garmin is addressing the need for dual ARINC429 ports on the G5 side, or the GNS530/430 side?  If the latter, then I would think Avidyne will need to make the corresponding change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?
No, not confirming anything about either, just recalling from threads here, I don't have any of those products so no first hand information. For definitive information call tech support.

OK, my question remains unanswered then.  Unless I hear otherwise, I tentatively conclude the 430/530 can be swapped out with an IFD 440/540, and everything that worked with the 430/530 will work with the IFD 440/540, apart from the items mentioned by Gring.

Just to be clear, I don't believe Avidyne has advertised that the IFD 440/540 is compatible with any other upgrade you might install in your panel at the same time you swap out the 430/530.  The plug 'n play claim says only that the IFD is compatible with equipment the 430/530 is compatible with - which might now need a temporary asterisk given Gring's info until the IFDs can catch up to the modifications recently made to the 430/530 software.  I suppose there will always be a lag between Garmin's 430/530 software upgrades, and the corresponding ones for the IFDs.


Edited by Catani - 02 Feb 2018 at 6:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by compasst compasst wrote:


From the research I've done and from talking with both Avidyne and Garmin knowledgeable folks, here's what I understand.

The GMU 11 provides remote magnetic information to the G5s and to the IFD. All three show mag heading.

The GAD 29 provides the ARINC 429 conduit for navigation information (such as course deviation) between the IFD, the G5s, and to Garmin autopilots, and RS232 provides the one-way communications from the IFD to the G5s for things like GPS signal and track, eliminating the need to use the G5 internal GPS or adding external antennae for the G5s. By the way, if you don't use the IFD for GPS signal to the G5s, Garmin suggests first trying the G5 on its internal GPS and antenna before adding external antenna.

The GAD 29B does the same thing as the GAD 29 above, adding support for many 3rd party autopilots. 

Everything displays on a dual G5 setup that still retains a vacuum AI, such as needed for a Century III autopilot. As noted in another message above, Garmin is combining 429 ports to fix a problem with their GNS 530w talking to the G5. I witnessed this problem in an aircraft I was test flying following a dual G5 install - the G5 did NOT display the glideSLOPE on ILS but did display the glidePATH on LPV approachs. The IFD 540 in two other installs that I have flown did correctly communicate with the dual G5 installs in those planes. Those installs used the 429 configurations (two channels) shown in the G5 STC installation docs version 11 dated Dec 2017. In order for vertical guidance from the IFD to show on the G5, the setting for VNAV must be on ENABLE LABELS. This particular setting is VNAV ENABLED in the GNS 530 and G5 installation manuals. 

I do not yet know if a GAD 29 (pre-Dec 2017 production) can be updated to a GAD 29B. Garmin aviation tech support is closed today - Feb 2 - for training. I'll post an update once I find out.




Thanks so much.  After having read many many discussions on the topic this more concisely answers my questions than anything I've ran across.  Exactly what I was looking for.
Brent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 1:11pm
Well, yes, obviously.  The GFC500 requires the installation of the G5 and won't even work with a G500 PFD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Arkvet - The G5 available for certified aircraft will not provide attitude information to an autopilot and will not provide flight director information.


The above is true at this time for non-Garmin autopilots.

From the Garmin 500 autopilot product info on Garmin website - 

  • Leverages certificated G5 electronic flight instrument1 for primary attitude reference — plus input and display of altitude preselect, heading, vertical speed, airspeed target and flight director cues
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote compasst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2018 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by arkvet arkvet wrote:

So lets assume I did the dual G5 install which included the GAD29b and GMU-11.  It seems some dual G5 installations have the AI display glide slope / CDI / flight director bars, and some other helpful data that is pretty helpful for IFR approaches.  Is this additional info provided by the IFD via the GAD-29b / GMU-11 or is it dependent on the specific autopilot?  The AP will have to continue to be driven by the vacuum AI but I wonder if that will prohibit the additional info provided on the G5 AI screen.

Just some thoughts. I have a hard time wrapping my head around where all the information comes from.  I actually called garmin tech support today trying to get an answer to that question.  I never could get an answer and to some degree felt like I was annoying them. 

From the research I've done and from talking with both Avidyne and Garmin knowledgeable folks, here's what I understand.

The GMU 11 provides remote magnetic information to the G5s and to the IFD. All three show mag heading.

The GAD 29 provides the ARINC 429 conduit for navigation information (such as course deviation) between the IFD, the G5s, and to Garmin autopilots, and RS232 provides the one-way communications from the IFD to the G5s for things like GPS signal and track, eliminating the need to use the G5 internal GPS or adding external antennae for the G5s. By the way, if you don't use the IFD for GPS signal to the G5s, Garmin suggests first trying the G5 on its internal GPS and antenna before adding external antenna.

The GAD 29B does the same thing as the GAD 29 above, adding support for many 3rd party autopilots. 

Everything displays on a dual G5 setup that still retains a vacuum AI, such as needed for a Century III autopilot. As noted in another message above, Garmin is combining 429 ports to fix a problem with their GNS 530w talking to the G5. I witnessed this problem in an aircraft I was test flying following a dual G5 install - the G5 did NOT display the glideSLOPE on ILS but did display the glidePATH on LPV approachs. The IFD 540 in two other installs that I have flown did correctly communicate with the dual G5 installs in those planes. Those installs used the 429 configurations (two channels) shown in the G5 STC installation docs version 11 dated Dec 2017. In order for vertical guidance from the IFD to show on the G5, the setting for VNAV must be on ENABLE LABELS. This particular setting is VNAV ENABLED in the GNS 530 and G5 installation manuals. 

I do not yet know if a GAD 29 (pre-Dec 2017 production) can be updated to a GAD 29B. Garmin aviation tech support is closed today - Feb 2 - for training. I'll post an update once I find out.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?

No, not confirming anything about either, just recalling from threads here, I don't have any of those products so no first hand information. For definitive information call tech support.

From what I've read, the IFDs have always worked with the G500/600 PFD/MFDs, but there are some recent minor issues that a lot of folks are waiting to have fixed. I don't know the details. The GDL-88 is not listed as supported with 10.2. Support was slated for it, but it missed 10.2. The very latest GDL-69A has some sort of issue with the remote control and music selection, AFAIK. The older units do not.

Can't tell you anything about the GNS units.

The point I was making, is twofold. The vast majority of setups work just fine after you slide the unit in and set it up, but you always need to check to be sure. With all the new products coming out, and firmware updates, things can change. Reacting to these with an IFD update can take a while, not only from an engineering standpoint, but also the regulatory framework.

* Orest



Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Feb 2018 at 4:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 4:27pm
Arkvet - The G5 available for certified aircraft will not provide attitude information to an autopilot and will not provide flight director information.

Catani - There was an issue with the 10.2.0.0 release that causes red Xs on a G500 at startup.  This was not a problem in prior releases and one can assume it would be fixed in the next release (10.2.1.0?).  Other than that, it was on the initial STC list and works properly.  The Avidyne test Cessna 182 had a G500 the entire time during flight certification testing, I've been in it.

The GDL69 and 69/A will work with the IFD540/550/440, I have one installed in my airplane (replaced the MLB700 a few months ago.)

The later GDL69 and 69/A that provides the newer SXM weather information does not fully work.  I think the weather may work but the satellite radio may not work correctly.

Yes, a Garmin 530//430 (with the proper release software, 5.x I think) will work with G500, GLD69/69A (both versions), and GDL88.


Edited by Gring - 01 Feb 2018 at 4:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by oskrypuch oskrypuch wrote:

Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

This may be a dumb question, but are there equipment combinations where a 430 or 530, working and compatible with all existing installed equipment, is plug 'n play replaced by an IFD440 or 540, and the IFD replacement was incompatible with that same installed equipment?  If so, what equipment is compatible with a swapped-out 430/530 but not a swapped-in IFD 440/540?

There are very few bits that won't work correctly.

Just to confirm, you are saying that the IFD 440/540 does not work (yet) with the G500, the GDL-69A, nor the GDL-88?  And to further confirm, you are also saying that (unlike the IFDs) a 430/530 will work just fine with those Garmin products?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 3:11pm
So lets assume I did the dual G5 install which included the GAD29b and GMU-11.  It seems some dual G5 installations have the AI display glide slope / CDI / flight director bars, and some other helpful data that is pretty helpful for IFR approaches.  Is this additional info provided by the IFD via the GAD-29b / GMU-11 or is it dependent on the specific autopilot?  The AP will have to continue to be driven by the vacuum AI but I wonder if that will prohibit the additional info provided on the G5 AI screen.

Just some thoughts. I have a hard time wrapping my head around where all the information comes from.  I actually called garmin tech support today trying to get an answer to that question.  I never could get an answer and to some degree felt like I was annoying them. 
Brent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Catani Catani wrote:

This may be a dumb question, but are there equipment combinations where a 430 or 530, working and compatible with all existing installed equipment, is plug 'n play replaced by an IFD440 or 540, and the IFD replacement was incompatible with that same installed equipment?  If so, what equipment is compatible with a swapped-out 430/530 but not a swapped-in IFD 440/540?

There are very few bits that won't work correctly.

The G5 used as AI works just fine. The G5 as HSI works electrically, but it needs paperwork to be legal. There are some G500 issues, the details of which I can't recall. Apparently both of these items are high on the priority list, so we may see these attended to in 10.2.1.

The very newest Sirius XM (69A) will not work fully, but the older 69s are fine.

The GDL-88 is not supported, it was to be supported with the rest of the Garmin ADS-B stuff, but didn't make 10.2. Perhaps 10.2.1.?

That is about it. In my view, it really is an amazing bit of reverse engineering. A call to tech support will ferret out any issues, for anyone considering.

I have an ASPEN, EDM830, TAS605, WX-500, STEC 55x, 796, all work 100% with the IFD540, for me. The IFD replaced a 430W in my panel, a few years ago.

* Orest





Edited by oskrypuch - 01 Feb 2018 at 9:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 8:08am
The G5 and IFD540 do work together and have been installed as a field approval.



Edited by Gring - 01 Feb 2018 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2018 at 1:14am
Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

...The problem is that on the main landing page, it is marketed as a "Direct Replacement".  There are people suggesting more accurate terminology, but that is not what Avidyne is doing, they are using misleading advertisement...

This may be a dumb question, but are there equipment combinations where a 430 or 530, working and compatible with all existing installed equipment, is plug 'n play replaced by an IFD440 or 540, and the IFD replacement was incompatible with that same installed equipment?  If so, what equipment is compatible with a swapped-out 430/530 but not a swapped-in IFD 440/540?
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The natives are getting restless. ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:

Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

That doesn't remove the blame from Avidyne if they have made specific commitments, taken people's money, and not delivered. That is a different matter.
Which Avidyne has done on multiple occasions.
8< snip >8


I would hope that you have specifics to back up that assertion. Otherwise, you're skating on thin ice.

Avidyne hasn't always delivered on what I hoped they would in the time frame suggested. From my observation they have met their legal obligation. Your assertion is that they have not.

Don't worry, the ice is frozen solid.  Those who have dealt with the issues are well aware, those who haven't don't know better than to question those who have...

Originally posted by arkvet arkvet wrote:

I guess I'm not seeing the harsh criticism as warranted.  I don't think "slide in compatible" is really misleading at all.  To think that this meant that over time as new products / software updates surfaced everything would remain in perfect working order is a little naive IMHO.  Regardless of your set-up (avidyne or not) there are going to be issues to solve as each mfg / piece of hardware evolves.  

It's one reason I'm anxious to see if Dynon can deliver on the Skyview HDX.  Combined with my IFD 550 that would be a dream and I would expect Dynon equipment to cooperate well with Dynon equipment and the IFD.  

The problem is that on the main landing page, it is marketed as a "Direct Replacement".  There are people suggesting more accurate terminology, but that is not what Avidyne is doing, they are using misleading advertisement.  All the reasons provided above about why it shouldn't be assumed that they are directly compatible is exactly why people are complaining the truth in advertising.

Directly from the website http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/index.html:
The IFDs are direct replacements for popular Garmin GNS Series Navigators. In most cases, the IFDs can utilize the existing tray and connectors, and are compatible with all the popular interface configurations, which can greatly minimize installation costs.

The statement that says most trays and connectors can be utilized is due to a hardware quality limitation that Avidyne ran into early on, it has nothing to do with functionality, pinout, or incompatibility.  They are still marketing this as a direct plug and play system - compatible with ALL popular interface configurations!  I believe the harsh criticism is spot on.



Edited by brou0040 - 31 Jan 2018 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glassanza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 6:53pm
Maybe a much less complicated solution wound be for Avidyne to revise 440/540/550 marketing information to say "plug and play compatible for 2015" since their actual delivery dates have a reputation of sliding well past those conveyed to the media and on this forum. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by bneub111 bneub111 wrote:

It sounds like we are mostly in agreement that there might be a more accurate way to describe “plug and play” and “slide in replacement” vs “uses the same tray and connectors”.

The YouTube video on the trade in page says you can plug it in, easily configure it, and be off and running in 15-20 minutes.

Each business has to make their own decisions on what to represent to their customers. The issue becomes how the customer and the avionics shop feels after the sale. That feeling is what generally gets related to other potential customers and it becomes reputation. Right or wrong, if a customer feels like they weren’t given the whole truth or didn’t receive what they were promised, you may not get a second chance to fix it even if the customer or shop didn’t read all of the fine print.

A video like that is a good value proposition and selling tool. What is needed is an attached list of qualifications that clearly indicate there are other elements that come into play. As Lance mentioned, there are many possible interconnections. It should be clearly stated as something that could and often does make replacement more complicated than the 30 minutes suggests. Even just a "your mileage may vary" type of statement would be a heads up to innocents.


Edited by chflyer - 31 Jan 2018 at 6:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by skitheo skitheo wrote:


I would hope that you have specifics to back up that assertion. Otherwise, you're skating on thin ice.

Avidyne hasn't always delivered on what I hoped they would in the time frame suggested. From my observation they have met their legal obligation. Your assertion is that they have not.

Check the thread "OK, nearly end of summer".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Gring Gring wrote:

Yes, but I don’t think Dynon will support commonly installed autopilots like STEC, Bendix King, Century. That leaves autopilot compatibility uncovered. I’m not sure if I would install a Dynon autopilot. I’d have to do a lot of investigation. Part of the issue is servo quality. Look at a King or More recently a Garmin GFC600 servo. They are large, robust, rebuildable, and can be removed without disturbing the rigging and can still be flown. An S-TEC, and Garmin GFC500 and most of the experimental servos are small almost disposable units. They just aren’t the same.

If there was a good Servo option for the DFC90 AND Dynon control (digitally) then you’d really have something marketable in a wide range of airplanes.

I’m not sold on these part 23 rewrite devices. They do not have the same level of robustness as fully certified devices.
 

Heavy != quality or strength

Feel free to use only CRT displays in your home and work! After all, how good can those 4K LED/LCD displays be? The CRTs are "large, robust, (sort-of) rebuildable...". 

If you don't like the Part 23 devices, by all means, only buy the TSO devices. My Cherokee doesn't need the elevator [torque|force] that a Cheyenne does. I don't want to pay the weight nor price penalties. I don't think the target markets for the DFC90 and Skyview HDX have much intersection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 3:56pm
That's a point to look into regarding the Servo quality.  However, I can't for the life of me believe that Dynon servos manufactured today would be of lesser quality than my 40 year old Century Servos.  I know refrigerators of today aren't what they used to be but I just can't imagine that's the case with AP servos.

Of the thousands of Dynon AP installs are there cases of AP servo failures? 

It's definitely a point worth considering. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 3:45pm
Yes, but I don’t think Dynon will support commonly installed autopilots like STEC, Bendix King, Century. That leaves autopilot compatibility uncovered. I’m not sure if I would install a Dynon autopilot. I’d have to do a lot of investigation. Part of the issue is servo quality. Look at a King or More recently a Garmin GFC600 servo. They are large, robust, rebuildable, and can be removed without disturbing the rigging and can still be flown. An S-TEC, and Garmin GFC500 and most of the experimental servos are small almost disposable units. They just aren’t the same.

If there was a good Servo option for the DFC90 AND Dynon control (digitally) then you’d really have something marketable in a wide range of airplanes.

I’m not sold on these part 23 rewrite devices. They do not have the same level of robustness as fully certified devices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oskrypuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 11:07am
Originally posted by arkvet arkvet wrote:

...
It's one reason I'm anxious to see if Dynon can deliver on the Skyview HDX.  Combined with my IFD 550 that would be a dream and I would expect Dynon equipment to cooperate well with Dynon equipment and the IFD. 

The principals of Dynon & Avidyne have a very good working relationship. In every promo shot of the Skyview Certified, there has been an IFD in the panel. All good signs.

* Orest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote arkvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 10:38am
I guess I'm not seeing the harsh criticism as warranted.  I don't think "slide in compatible" is really misleading at all.  To think that this meant that over time as new products / software updates surfaced everything would remain in perfect working order is a little naive IMHO.  Regardless of your set-up (avidyne or not) there are going to be issues to solve as each mfg / piece of hardware evolves. 

It's one reason I'm anxious to see if Dynon can deliver on the Skyview HDX.  Combined with my IFD 550 that would be a dream and I would expect Dynon equipment to cooperate well with Dynon equipment and the IFD. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LANCE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 10:17am
This is a challenge for Avidyne and every other avionics manufacturer. New products and software updates on existing products make compatibility a moving target. Avidyne's "slide in" replacement is exactly that - it is the same form factor and it is pin compatible with a Garmin 530/430 - therefore when you slide it in the existing tray it emulates everything you had at that moment. They have no way of knowing how the 100's if not 1000's of installers have wired everything and they don't have a crystal ball to know what future software updates there will be on all of your boxes. It seems wise before letting anyone update any software on your other boxes to make a call to Avidyne support to see if it's been tested yet. I have been very impressed by how well it has worked for so many people. It shows that if the original installs were done according to the install manuals between all of these devices the likelihood is high that they will all talk to each other after getting the settings right. For a few it may mean that a few wires need to be added and they may need software updates or temporary downgrades to keep everything talking to each other. The more complicated your installation the more homework needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skitheo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 12:35am
Originally posted by brou0040 brou0040 wrote:

Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

That doesn't remove the blame from Avidyne if they have made specific commitments, taken people's money, and not delivered. That is a different matter.
Which Avidyne has done on multiple occasions.
8< snip >8


I would hope that you have specifics to back up that assertion. Otherwise, you're skating on thin ice.

Avidyne hasn't always delivered on what I hoped they would in the time frame suggested. From my observation they have met their legal obligation. Your assertion is that they have not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by chflyer chflyer wrote:

That doesn't remove the blame from Avidyne if they have made specific commitments, taken people's money, and not delivered. That is a different matter.

Which Avidyne has done on multiple occasions.

I agree customers need to do their homework, but I also believe it is not acceptable for a company to knowingly mislead customers.  A company can only blame customers for so long before people realize what's going on and the company generates a poor reputation.  You'll have individual customers that lose big, but in the long run, the company will lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 2:11pm
It sounds like we are mostly in agreement that there might be a more accurate way to describe “plug and play” and “slide in replacement” vs “uses the same tray and connectors”.

The YouTube video on the trade in page says you can plug it in, easily configure it, and be off and running in 15-20 minutes.

Each business has to make their own decisions on what to represent to their customers. The issue becomes how the customer and the avionics shop feels after the sale. That feeling is what generally gets related to other potential customers and it becomes reputation. Right or wrong, if a customer feels like they weren’t given the whole truth or didn’t receive what they were promised, you may not get a second chance to fix it even if the customer or shop didn’t read all of the fine print.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 10:56am
Sure they do. Marketing often presents information in a way that is easily misunderstood and implies more than is what is delivered. Whether that is misleading or even constitutes misrepresentation is not a black and white area. While I agree that Avidyne could be more transparent with disclosure on the limitations of the slide-in marketing, I find that in general many consumers are far too "gullible" or maybe too naive and not sceptical enough when evaluating manufacturers' claims.

Anyone making a significant investment in any avionics needs to do their due diligence to ensure that what they buy meets their needs and expectations, as in buying an entire aircraft. As adults, this responsibility lies with the purchaser even though many people don't like that and/or won't accept it. After all, we need to live with the results of our decisions and disappointment after commitment takes away a lot of the satisfaction compared to a well thought through choice knowing and accepting the implications.

That doesn't remove the blame from Avidyne if they have made specific commitments, taken people's money, and not delivered. That is a different matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brou0040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 9:09am
It is very clear that Avidyne understands there is a easy misunderstanding regarding the plug and play slide-in replacement marketing yet they continue to market it that way.  Just because they have the legal fine print on their side doesn't mean they aren't continuing to knowingly misleading their customers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:44am
The interpretation of "slide-in replacement" is a clear case of where customers interpretation of the marketing-speak can deviate dramatically from the reality.

Avidyne clearly means that one can physically slide the Garmin out and Avidyne in to the same tray. That's it. It is a good and strong selling point. 

Many customers seem to interpret it though to mean that the Avidyne is plug-compatible with the Garmin irregardless of the wiring and device interfacing behind the tray, which is definitely not true in many (most???) cases as is clear from all the forum threads related to interfacing the IFDs to other equipment.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bneub111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by DavidBunin DavidBunin wrote:

Originally posted by Flying_Monkey Flying_Monkey wrote:

Originally posted by AviSimpson AviSimpson wrote:

Originally posted by pburger pburger wrote:

I'm glad to see reports that the IFDs are talking to the G5s.  That is indeed great news.
It appears that it will just be a documentation exercise as part of a major release (TSO impacting). We will still need to fly it in our test aircraft to confirm that everything is functional.
 It's frustrating that this is taking so long if it really is just a documentation thing.


Just a documentation thing?  That's not what I understood there.  It is an extra layer of documentation that may come as part of a major release.  Those don't happen quickly.

Also, "still need to fly it" tells me that their test airplane is not yet flying with a G5 installed.  Not surprising since I doubt their test airplane spends as much time as most of ours do sitting idle in a hangar.  Test aircraft generally have busy flight schedules and rigid maintenance/modification schedules.  They can't just deck the plane for modification each time a competitor invents a new piece of equipment.

To quote Heinlein, "Waiting is."



I would agree in most cases except I received a marketing email from Avidyne last week with a trade in promotion on 430/530 for the IFD series. It clearly stated that the 440/540 was a “slide-in replacement” for a 430/530. When you market your product that way, I believe your reputation is dependent upon staying current with that competitor.

I’m not aware of any downgrade in the G5 functionality with a 430/530 vs a 650/750. Therefore it seems that where a G5 is concerned, all functionality and wiring should remain the same.

I do realize that doesn’t change an obligation to comply with an STC or install manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 11:32am
Rats, wish I could have helped.  But another reason to love my 550
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TogaDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 11:14am
Unfortunately I only have an IFD440.  I also did not see a config option for that 2nd 429 output in the manual.

My work-around to the problem is to display my traffic elsewhere so I can preserve the 429 out for use with the G5.  Due to that limitation I chose not to go with the Avidyne ADSB-in. (edit: though, apparently I could have by using the 232-in. Oh well...)

(Yes, my picture has a 540 - I sold that plane).  ;-)


Edited by TogaDriver - 29 Jan 2018 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 10:28am
BTW:  the Avidyne install manual shows another ARINC429 A & B out on the 1050 connector. n not sure if that will work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwjenks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 10:25am
My instructions from Avidyne were to use the P1050 Additional I/O connector to send the RS232 data to my G5 AI and my new TRIO Autopilot by way of pins #62 and #60 respectively.  And we are sending ARINC429 data to the Trio A/P by way of P1001 Main connector Pins #46 and #47 (ARINC429 A & B out).  Avidyne sent me the P1050 connector since it was not on the original tray.  Your shop should have the pin out labels in the 238pg install manual.
Works fine.
Not sure if this helps or not, since I'm not sure what other devices you have connected. 
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