OK, nearly end of summer |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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I think it is just a mistyping and they are both the same thing. ADS-R is ADSB rebroadcast. This is the data your ADSB in receiver gets from the ground station. In the case of single band receivers, it gets traffic outputting on the other band. There is some other stuff, but the key to remember you are getting the information from an ADSB ground based transmitter and not from the actual target airplane(s).
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Thanks for the clarification.
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Vince
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Consequently, I do not suspect a report of an aircraft sighted but not detected by ADS-B or TAS equipment is anything more than a target without any kind of transponder, or a receiving aircraft with equipment limitations - and no indication the ADS-B or TAS system itself is failure prone or inadequately designed. I think every aircraft and drone should be required to have on board a box that responds to ADS-B and/or Mode C transponder interrogations. The airspace we fly in is not private property.
Edited by Catani - 28 Nov 2017 at 3:04pm |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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I could not disagree with this statement more.
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Pardon my earlier typo and I appreciate the clarification from Gring. I too agree with Catani regarding this issue, with more and more things aloft these days I would like the opportunity to see as many of them as possible.
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GDC25
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Stiletto1
Groupie Joined: 06 Aug 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Funny, but as I have debated the "ins and outs' of ADSB, I've kind of come full circle. I really hate the fact that it is an incomplete solution in the US, the reasons for which I've stated before, ad nausea. I've put 100 hours on my plane this year and always use Flight Following when VFR. Last weekend I flew to a non-towered airport with a diner on the field for breakfast, just about 100 miles from my backyard private strip. A very nice clear blue day with little to no haze. While in route ATC called out three aircraft that I never did see - I have a heck of time finding targets against a backdrop of planet earth - the higher ones, usually not a problem. While there eating breakfast I saw many types of aircraft ranging from home built and Carbon Cubs through Bonanzas, coming and going. I guess I was the only light twin that day. On the way back home I didn't use FF but saw several aircraft approaching the airport as I was departing - most seemed to be making appropriate radio calls with position reports as far as ten miles out but the ones I actually saw were not until they were very close. It's the ones you never see that make you nervous. Well, I'm not sure what any of that means but I'm now pretty firmly in the camp of wanting any help I can get with traffic awareness - it sure would be nice if all aircraft operating from public use airports or in class E or greater airspace were required to be equipped with at least ADSB-out so I wouldn't feel like I was throwing money at an incomplete traffic awareness solution. One thing last weekend proved to me was that it is in fact a crowded sky, even in the middle of nowhere at low altitudes. And for those that disagree or don't like to make radio calls at non-towered airports, check six Ivan! :) Edited by Stiletto1 - 29 Nov 2017 at 12:52am |
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C310C
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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To hear such support for the UK CAA position is encouraging.
But those of us who have been duped and misled into spending money on Avidyne equipment will not benefit from this conspicuity revolution unless we write off that money and turn back to Garmin.
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Catani
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2016 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Edited by Catani - 29 Nov 2017 at 4:31am |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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There is a "nest" of gliders right beside one of the approach legs to our airport. They don't want to be tracked, as they often stray high into prohibited airspace (transponder req'd above 6000ft in that location) and into clouds. As a group, they are bad actors, and have an misguided attitude that they can go wherever they want.
I would dearly love for them to be required to equip with Mode C, so ATC could see them to provide warnings, and I could see them directly with my Avidyne TAS, and in any case it would likely reduce their transgressions. The flurry of light unmanned low flying craft is a new growing problem. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 29 Nov 2017 at 9:10am |
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HenryM
Senior Member Joined: 13 Oct 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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I initially didn't think there was all that much traffic out there. However, sinceI got my first ADS-B In device, I've changed my mind. Even though I know I don't see every single plane out there, I am aware of many more, some coming very close to me, because of ADS-B. I am in the camp that would like everyone to participate.
I also think everyone should have a working radio, at least a handheld one. I witnessed a near collision at a very busy local airport (before they added a control tower), because someone with a god given right to fly without talking on the radio decided to use the cross runway closer to his parking space rather than the fairly busy runway that also favored the wind. There are few airports near me that I think could justify not having communication with the rest of the people using that airport. Things are crowded enough that basic safety devices should be required.
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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So, yes it is "end of summer" and we are still hearing the same frustrating answers from Avidyne that all are beginning to sound like the same VaporWare promises. . Development of Seattle Avionics competitive approach charts for our Avidyne "is not cost effective..." . the TAS"A" promised software that helped to propell IFD Sales is probably VaporWare, as suggested. . Avidyne resources thought better allocated on promised improvements for existing v10.2.1 may also be VaporWare Campaign Promises run rampant - in all sectors!! Tom W. |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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TAS is way cool in many parts of the world, including for my mission profile, but it would be a much harder sell in the US these days. But regardless, I really don't see any sales linkage between the TAS units (A or otherwise) and the IFDs, at all. You can get an A or G traffic unit combined with an IFD or GTN (ugh) unit. Makes no difference. SA cannot provide navdata, only charts. Most folks don't use the chart subscription anyway. There are so many other things that would be better to spend time on, that would serve more people. Without question the TAS-A release is way overdue, embarrassingly so. But it adds only a little to the function of the non-A TAS unit, so personally I'm not really fussing about it. I have no reason to think that 10.2.1 won't be released in the near term, but I am absolutely certain that projected dates will NOT be announced. We'll find out about it when it is available to dealers. And even without 10.2.1, my IFD remains a stellar unit, by far the best FMS/GPS available out there, so personally I'm not fussing much about that either. Avidyne used to discuss project time lines and dates, and that was great, but a few folks gave them a black eye over slipping dates, and I don't blame them for clamming up now -- like the rest of the industry. * Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 29 Nov 2017 at 11:48pm |
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Stiletto1
Groupie Joined: 06 Aug 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Do we even know what new features/enhancements are intended to be included in 10.2.1? All this talk about projected time lines being missed is not unique to Avidyne. G has the same problem - announces products like their new displays and autopilots in advance of STC/AML, announces future compatibility and feature enhancements in advance, and misses projected software update dates by many months as well. BUT - as someone going in for a major avionics install next month I can tell you the most frustrating thing about all of this to me is that A does not have nearly the level integration and capability in ADSB transponders that G has. My situation is problematic in that my limited stack height pretty much dictates that I go with a remote transponder or audio panel or both, if I want to incorporate everything in a single stack and not panel mount something down by my knees. Avidyne's current ADSB solutions lack dual band in, require separate box installs, and there is no sign of a pending future solution that would require going back for a reinstall at some future date anyway - which all forces additional unnecessary expense and lost flight time IF something better from A actually comes along. Couple that with the fact that their current remote ADSB offerings were produced by a company no longer in business, well, it just leaves me cold - what are they selling, new old stock that is basically orphaned as soon as it is installed? Any other solution requires mixing and matching a competitors panel mount components, which in my case takes up too much valuable panel space. AND, G's latest GTN software release has added VFR approaches with vertical guidance and they are planning to include the ability of assigning crossing altitudes at any waypoint with their next release. And Orest, they have been showing off the fabled Boeing Banana! Well, although SVS is entertaining and I would prefer the FMS of the IFD, I can get SVS on an IPad or Aspen display and upload and make flight plan changes from the IPad on the fly. So, Avidyne, I gotta tell ya, in lieu of the above all this is a tough sell for my situation. Right now I'm leaning toward an audio panel from one or the other with either twin GTN650's and a remote GTX345R, or twin IFD440's with remote out and a Skytrax (then wait for a remote dual band in solution and reinstall), an Aspen PFD, and then hope for G,A, or STec to get my plane on an AML for a digital AP. No question it would be A equipment if they had a viable competitor to the 345R. I guess I won't make a final decision on which way to go until the day I write the check. Edited by Stiletto1 - 30 Nov 2017 at 6:50am |
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C310C
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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Where have they written that? If they have, at least it’s closure and we know that we have to spend money on Garmin and can give up waiting on Avidyne. |
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HenryM
Senior Member Joined: 13 Oct 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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Is there a list of issues in 10.2.0 anywhere? Have any major bugs been reported? I haven’t run into anything, but I’d rather know now than be surprised at an inopportune time.
I was even ok with 10.1.x, but I went to 10.2 to play with SVS. Are any new features expected in 10.2.1? |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Yes, I think G read all my posts, and got to work. :-( In general G has been very busy adding IFD features into their boxes. The biggie differences that will likely never change though, is their inefficient MENU key based structure, that is heavily tied to the touchscreen alone. There is also the bizarre 650 input "keyboard". Ironically, G users should be pretty thankful for A. * Orest |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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Nothing major that I'm aware of. The tea leaves suggest that 10.2.1 will have some minor bug fixes, with a sprinkling of some new features. (but that prediction plus a dollar, will get you a cup of coffee) * Orest |
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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From my experience, I think the GTN650 is a horrible box. The keyboard is terrible and the small display is not usable due to its size. |
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AviSimpson
Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Location: Lincoln, MA Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Spot on. Release 10.2.1 has been in the works for many months now. The only comment that I will make on it is that it is primarily a bug fix release. There might be a surprise or two in the release but if you aren't seeing issues with the IFDs at 10.2, then there won't be much incentive to update to this release. A feature/fix list and timeline for availability will not be made public until the approval is received from the FAA.
I wouldn't say that's true. We support the GTX330ES, GTX335, GTX345, Appareo ES and our 2 transponders for ADS-B Out. We support GTX345, L3 Lynx and our ADS-B receivers for ADS-B In. We are planning to add to the list of products we integrate to in a future release, so that list will only grow.
Agreed. That's why we are taking a multiprong attack on supporting as many ADS-B products and developing our own ADS-B products (TAS-A and others). |
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Simpson Bennett
Avidyne Corporation Product Manager |
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Stiletto1
Groupie Joined: 06 Aug 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I agree with everything you say, thus my quandary in choosing which way to go. However, that clunky interface is alleviated somewhat when you add the ability to upload and make flight plan changes with an IPad - which is something I've become accustomed to already.
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C310C
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Stiletto1
Groupie Joined: 06 Aug 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Agreed. One might say the same thing about the IFD440 screen size - However, when you add a PFD and an IPad in the mix you have the ability to do all your flight planning in advance, upload, and make changes on the fly without ever touching the navigator, and you have more screen real estate than the IFD 550/540 or even a GTN750 - so, I'm not sure that really matters too much.
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C310C
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Stiletto1
Groupie Joined: 06 Aug 2017 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I appreciate your position. As I said my case is problematic due to lack of enough radio stack height to include a panel mount transponder (I don't really want to put a panel mount one down by my knees) - so, my preference is for a remote dual band in transponder solution like the GTX345R - which unfortunately is not supported with an IFD. If Avidyne had a similar box available I would not be hesitating.
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C310C
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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I don't recall any mention of additional features with 10.2.1. Normally a 3rd point release is pure maintenance. The big 10.2.1 fix that I'm waiting for (and holding out on 10.2.0) is the user waypoint deletion problem. I have many many user waypoints and will need to reenter them manually when moving to 10.2.x. I only want to do that once.
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Vince
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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So, is that now the recommendation?
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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Vince,
I gave up on the wait, so my solution has been to keep my Wpts on the PC Sim where I have been able to restore them to the panel 540's. If you have dual panel units, restore from two separate USB drives, or turn off one while restoring to one, then reverse Off the other... Yes, it has been a long wait - seems like a forgotton cause, along with the TAS "A" update promised fix. Tom Wolf
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chflyer
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Location: LSZK Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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Tom,
I assume you mean that you have entered them (manually?) on the new (10.2 compatible) sim. In any case, I was forced to migrate due to a repair to one IFD (which always comes with the latest version .... hence 10.2). Of course I had to update the 2nd IFD to 10.2 too so that the two could talk. I guess I just got lucky, because the update from 10.1.3.0 to 10.2.0.0 didn't erase my user wpts. My first action under 10.2 when I saw the user wpts still there was to do a backup to usb, even before sync'ing the two IFDs. So I now have a 10.2 usr wpt backup just in case the issue fixed by 10.2.1 raises its head.
Edited by chflyer - 31 Dec 2017 at 6:32pm |
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Vince
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Just observing that this thread (about TAS-A) was started 2 1/2 years ago!!!
The product was overdue at that time!!! Edited by ddgates - 01 Jan 2018 at 12:56pm |
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David Gates
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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"End of Summer..." and "end of 4th QTR"!! Promises, promises...
Lets see, are we still stuck in the mud... . TAS"A" Software update to integrate 1090 ADSB IN . v10.2.1 to allow IFD X40 high speed baud comm with Aspen/Lynx + other needed fixes Happy New Year David. Lets go flying. Tom W.
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ddgates
Senior Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Deer Valley Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Tom: Bonanza completes annual today. Walk through on Carefree house tomorrow. David
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David Gates
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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Congrats David, on both.
Up in Pagosa Springs until next week, driving down Monday - in total withdrawal from plane, so hoping to get back to lots of flying. Tom
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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So this thread is now so old and useless that we are going to use it to discuss our travel plans?
I have managed to talk two, maybe three, people out of IFDs this week. Avidyne may have forgotten their side of the bargain, I haven't forgotten mine.
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Gring
Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2011 Location: Kingston, NY Status: Offline Points: 722 |
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Tim, you must feel pretty proud of yourself!!!
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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Not proud, just fulfilling my end of the bargain.
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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But, Gring, on a more positive, and rather eery, note, literally at the same moment that your message popped up, I was watching a Ted talk which mentioned Kingston, NY!
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LANCE
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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Griping and complaining and talking negatively to others about Avidyne isn't going to make any more traffic display on your unit. This forum is for people that enjoy the benefits of their Avidynes and are looking forward to even more features to come - in other words generally positive people. None of us want to hear you air your grievances. That would be best be done will e-mails directly to Avidyne or pay them a visit in person if you want, but please not here. We really don't want to hear it.
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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[/QUOTE]
Griping and complaining and talking negatively to others about Avidyne isn't going to make any more traffic display on your unit. This forum is for people that enjoy the benefits of their Avidynes and are looking forward to even more features to come - in other words generally positive people. None of us want to hear you air your grievances. That would be best be done will e-mails directly to Avidyne or pay them a visit in person if you want, but please not here. We really don't want to hear it. [/QUOTE]
Don't shoot the messenger - Many Avidyne customers have bought into Avidyne products not only for the quality, but also for the advertised promises of time-sensitive future development... T. Wolf
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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Lance,
You must be blessed with tremendous insight to know what literally everyone else is thinking. Kudos. But is this really just a fanboi’s meeting place? A cathedral built to the praise of Avidyne? If so, what would happen if the Emperor really had no clothes? We must open our minds to other perspectives, should we not? And I will open mine to yours. How, in your opinion, will I best behave to get what I paid for four years ago in, let’s say, the next year, before the fifth anniversary of their six month promise? Emails, you say? Jumping on a jet plane and crossing the Atlantic? Are these techniques guaranteed success? Tell you what, if you pay for my flight and hotel I promise to repay you (at some unspecified time in the future) if I leave the factory with a working 605A certified for ADS-B in. Seem reasonable? You trust me the way I trusted Avidyne, right? |
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oskrypuch
Senior Member Joined: 09 Nov 2012 Location: CYFD Status: Offline Points: 3058 |
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There really isn't anything new to say on this. Folks, let's not feed the troll.
* Orest Edited by oskrypuch - 14 Jan 2018 at 9:43am |
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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And that is just what they should be ashamed of. I am honestly amazed and bewildered by your corporate willingness to take it lying down. |
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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I agree, Avidyne has failed on promises multiple times. The extent of their issues cannot be blamed on the FAA, which they repeatedly do as an excuse for their failure to execute. Many of the Avidyne supporters cite this forum as a positive interaction with Avidyne that other manufacturers don't have. That doesn't mean this is a fanboy only forum. If this forum was just to pat backs and give high fives, it would not be providing useful customer feedback to Avidyne - not all customer feedback is positive. Understandably, Avidyne has stopped providing promised dates - which was one of their marketing flaws in the past, but unfortunately, they've more or less shut down all communications, which has generated much of the frustration. Edited by brou0040 - 15 Jan 2018 at 12:07pm |
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pburger
Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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Well said. I am constantly amazed at the fanboy defense of Avidyne at all turns by a few members. It reminds me a lot of Apple fanboys. The truth is that Avidyne is not perfect. They have made some missteps. They need to hear the negative feedback. In fact, I believe that negative feedback is much more valuable than positive feedback. That being said, I am still an Avidyne fan. I want Avidyne to succeed, and I love to show off my cool Avidyne stack to my friends. The very existence of this forum is a testament to Avidyne's willingness to engage with their customers, and at least for now, that includes both negative and positive feedback, and I applaud them for that.
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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I
kind of have to agree with Timothy on this one. Since this issues has roused
the “senior counsel” to reply to this thread let’s not forget about the
repeated whining about pushed release dates for the IFD’s which was virtually
unanimous among pre-buyer customers (Oskrypuch excluded). During that time
Steve took the heat and answered the hard questions honestly which at least
provided some assurance of Avidyne’s commitment to deliver. I realize that this
forum has become more of an education tool for new owners trying to figure out
how to get north up on the map page but there are other Avidyne products that appear
to have not received the same priority the IFD’s did. For my sake I hope the
IFD’s remain a flagship for Avidyne so additional features continue to be
developed. That being said, for those who paid good money for pre-buy product s
4 year ago that still have nothing to show for it I can totally understand
their contempt for Avidyne at this point. With regard to this thread I believe
Steve offered Timothy a refund of his deposit quite some time ago ( I could be
wrong, this battle has been going on for a while), maybe that is still
available and it is time to move on to what I would think would be better and
cheaper options at this point. Just my opinion, not my money.
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GDC25
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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Not really, no. The position is much more nuanced than that. I am going to use made up numbers, but they are not far wrong. Although £1 ~ $1.35, in your heads you can just treat the £ sign as a $ sign, because this is roughly the equivalent (flying is much more expensive over here.) I wanted TAS + ADS-B In. My avionics shop offered me two choices:
I (foolishly, as I now recognise) believed Avidyne and paid the £15k About two years ago, once Avidyne realised how much business I was costing them (actually, I think that they still have no idea how much business I am costing them, it is huge) they called me and offered me £2k. At the time, the GTX 345 was not available, so the cost of getting ADS-B In would have been around £22k, less whatever I could have sold the TAS605 for, maybe £5k. £17K is more than £2k, by quite a margin, so the offer made no sense. Now we have the GTX 345, which costs about £5k, I think. I have it installed in the "other" aircraft and it works very nicely. I guess it would cost £1k to install and certify, so £6k in all. More attractive, but still three times the £2k offer. So I would not use the word "refund". I never paid £2k. It is a notional amount as far as I am concerned and comes nowhere near covering my costs. They would have to offer to pay to have a GTX 345 installed to make me shut up and go away, and I am confident that that ain't going to happen!
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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So you actually paid Avidyne $15k (not adjusted, understand
that) and got offered $2k to cancel your pre-buy which 4 years later is still
not available to install in your aircraft? Based on your outlay and timeframe
to not receive a certified product I see your point. Flushing $13k doesn’t set
too well with anyone now matter what side of the pond you are on.
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GDC25
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LANCE
Senior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2014 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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If we all got up a collection, what would we have to pay to make you go away from the forum?
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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There seems a great ease with which some people claim to speak for everyone, which, judging by the balance of discussion, is not justified.
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brou0040
Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Location: KIYK Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Leave him alone, your whining about him is just as annoying. If you don't like it, stop visiting this page!
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glassanza
Groupie Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Actually the chatter on the forum has been pretty flat lately, thought I would give him an opportunity to provide some entertainment until we get a new IFD release to talk about. I am familiar with his history in this thread and understand why most of tired of hearing from him. Last comment from me on this.
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GDC25
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Timothy Nathan
Groupie Joined: 10 Feb 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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So, how’s it going? Have they nearly finished?
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n7ifr
Senior Member Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Location: Scottsdale, Az Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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Just FYI - Learning the G-1000 for flying with CAP... I am starting to feel like Dorothy in the Wizzard of ... tapping my heels throughout the course wishing all modern aircraft were equipped with our 540's instead...
So much more functional and intuitive... and with dual installs, fewer points of failure. On their traffic, I don't believe even the G1000 will display both TAS and ADSB integrated traffic (I could be wrong). What a shame the GTX345 despite being able to integrate both, can't display both on our 540. Maybe there is a UAT 980 ADSB solution for IN & OUT that integrates TAS?? Tom W.
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